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Old 08-02-2010, 04:58 AM   #8971
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Don't forget to factor in time on the pipes and getting turn marshalled.


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Originally Posted by CSeils View Post
First let me say that I will be September first compliant by Sept. 1. But, not to ruffle any one's feathers, I think that this is some interesting information about the new motor rules.

The thing that I think is interesting is that, isn't the new motor rule supposed to slow everyone down too a closer racing speed? Here we have a 25.5 setup racing against 21.5's and not doing to bad it seems. I thought that the new rules would change the speed of VTA drastically. Are we talking about seconds or tenths of a second with the different motors?

Just wondering, please don't flame me.
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Old 08-02-2010, 05:05 AM   #8972
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Originally Posted by bigb11 View Post
Tekin has done everything to comply with the rules.
Except comply with the rules. Perhaps you don't understand what non programmable means. You could google it

No one is forcing you to go buy a new speed controller. No one is forcing you to race in this class. Make a choice and stop whining.
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Old 08-02-2010, 05:55 AM   #8973
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Originally Posted by woodys3b View Post
Except comply with the rules. Perhaps you don't understand what non programmable means. You could google it

No one is forcing you to go buy a new speed controller. No one is forcing you to race in this class. Make a choice and stop whining.
From their website:

The GTB is also programmable

For those interested in fine tuning, the Havoc Sport ESC offers a simple interface, making the system completely programmable .

These are programmable.

Maybe some people don't like Tekin and that is why they aren't allowed.

Also allowing speedo's with reverse that aren't alowed in racing?

You seem to have a lot to say to people that have been running Vintage longer then you have.
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Old 08-02-2010, 06:50 AM   #8974
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You seem to have a lot to say to people that have been running Vintage longer then you have.
Of course there are people who have been doing this a lot longer than me. That doesn't change the fact that I keep hearing the same old song.

"Why can't I run this illegal speedo in VTA?"

"Because it's illegal."

"But I want to run it."

"But you can't."

You don't have to be a seasoned VTA veteran to see how pointless this is.

I like what Tekin is doing. I like the Tekin I own. I would like to use it in my VTA car as well but I can't. I'm an adult. I can accept that and play within the rules.

I don't envy Rob's position. He knows where he wants to take the class and he is doing it. Some people don't agree with his decisions and that's ok. This isn't a majority rules kind of thing. I guess being a 24 year military man helps me accept that. Come fall, we will all be out there having fun and this will all be moot.
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Old 08-02-2010, 07:39 AM   #8975
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodys3b View Post
Of course there are people who have been doing this a lot longer than me. That doesn't change the fact that I keep hearing the same old song.

"Why can't I run this illegal speedo in VTA?"

"Because it's illegal."

"But I want to run it."

"But you can't."

You don't have to be a seasoned VTA veteran to see how pointless this is.

I like what Tekin is doing. I like the Tekin I own. I would like to use it in my VTA car as well but I can't. I'm an adult. I can accept that and play within the rules.

I don't envy Rob's position. He knows where he wants to take the class and he is doing it. Some people don't agree with his decisions and that's ok. This isn't a majority rules kind of thing. I guess being a 24 year military man helps me accept that. Come fall, we will all be out there having fun and this will all be moot.
don't forget the 'why do i have to run just the novak motor?'

for everyone wanting to run other speedos - lobby your local track to allow them, since it obiviously from a national standpoint, the rules are fast and firm

I know I am still undecided about my local track - ie, to continue to allow the Tekin's with v208 spec mode, but we also aren't making a change until after the new year, so I still got some time to weigh out the alternatives
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Old 08-02-2010, 09:32 AM   #8976
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It has been quite sometime since I have been in here. I hate to see that you guys are still having the same old arguments. Its funny because it looks like the people holding the positions have changed, even though the argument remains largely unchanged.

The reason that I am not racing VTA anymore is not because of the rules change. I am not mad because I can't use my Tekin, or because I cant use my old four cell rig. If I could I would gladly spend the bucks for the gear to comply with the rule change, but it doesnt make much differrence since I have no place to race.

I dont blame Tekin for not producing a whole speedo that is not programmable. Especially since the RS is so popular in the market, TC and elsewhere. I do applaud Tekin for making a program in an effort to comply with VTA rules. I also understand RobK's stance on it.

Square one is that each driver has to be aware of the rules at their local track. The USVTA will not come to your track on a weekly basis and enforce the rules. Nor will they make you eat your broccoli. If your track wants to use the Tekin then they should make their best effort to let everyone know who might come from some distance to race. The purpose of the National set of rules is to have a template that allows racing to be uniform no matter where you race. I personally have no problem running a Havok against a Tekin on the VTA setting, but I want to know what I am up against.

If a Tekin is what you have to run and your club allows that, then go for it. But if you are going to go to a national or official event, you cant say that you didnt know the rules. Plus if you are going to travel very far to race then you have to except the fact that a Havok combo cost less than a Hotel room and a tank of gas.

Theres no use getting upset over it.
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Old 08-02-2010, 10:34 AM   #8977
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So how was your racing this past weekend?

On Friday, I finally got a chance to race a 25.5 on a small indoor carpet track. We ran a separate 25.5 heat, and we had some great door-to-door/bumper to bumper racing.

On Sunday, ran the 25.5 against 21.5's on a parking lot asphalt track. I was able to out-qualify a few good drivers running 21.5's. This was simply due to the fact that I had a better handling car at the speed I was running.
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Old 08-02-2010, 10:38 AM   #8978
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The USVTA rules allow programmable escs, but not those that are PC programmable. Our older escs are programmable without using a computer.

Our new controllers---the Kinetics and Havoc Pro SC---were specifically designed with a detectable non-timing option in order to comply with ROAR's new Sportsman rules. All DTA escs will have to include this option in order to be allowed in this new Sportsman category.

I support Rob's decision to exclude timing/PC programmable escs (including ours ) from his upcoming season. In addition to being more expensive, these controllers are also more complicated to learn to use effectively.

If the VTA goal is to design a fun, affordable series, keeping costs low is important to attract more participants. Expanding esc options would just create an "arms' race" as users would believe that they must have an ever more expensive esc to be competitive.

Someone upthread said that Novak should make a 60.00 controller---we already do. We have offered this in our USVTA store since @Feb.
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Old 08-02-2010, 11:58 AM   #8979
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What practical diference does it make if the ESC is computer programmable or simply just programmable? No practical difference at all but no matter, the ESC police will have their way with us and do as they wish.


Quote:
Originally Posted by NovakTwo View Post
The USVTA rules allow programmable escs, but not those that are PC programmable. Our older escs are programmable without using a computer.

Our new controllers---the Kinetics and Havoc Pro SC---were specifically designed with a detectable non-timing option in order to comply with ROAR's new Sportsman rules. All DTA escs will have to include this option in order to be allowed in this new Sportsman category.

I support Rob's decision to exclude timing/PC programmable escs (including ours ) from his upcoming season. In addition to being more expensive, these controllers are also more complicated to learn to use effectively.

If the VTA goal is to design a fun, affordable series, keeping costs low is important to attract more participants. Expanding esc options would just create an "arms' race" as users would believe that they must have an ever more expensive esc to be competitive.



Someone upthread said that Novak should make a 60.00 controller---we already do. We have offered this in our USVTA store since @Feb.

Last edited by Gris; 08-02-2010 at 03:44 PM. Reason: sp & political correctness
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Old 08-02-2010, 03:23 PM   #8980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lidebt2 View Post
From their website:

The GTB is also programmable

For those interested in fine tuning, the Havoc Sport ESC offers a simple interface, making the system completely programmable .

These are programmable.

Maybe some people don't like Tekin and that is why they aren't allowed.

Also allowing speedo's with reverse that aren't alowed in racing?

You seem to have a lot to say to people that have been running Vintage longer then you have.

There is no problem with Tekin. They just don't offer a product that fits into our parameters at this time. KO Propo does not either, FWIW.

As others have said, "programming" (take notice of the quotes) is ok in terms of throttle curves or brake profiles. Additional timing advance is not ok. Updateable firmware is not ok.

I hope that clears some things up.
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Old 08-02-2010, 04:18 PM   #8981
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Rob, YGPM
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Old 08-03-2010, 11:07 AM   #8982
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 95lscoupe View Post
Everybody can just run any esc they prefer and the motors would be slower like 30.5t something like that.
The problem here is that the motor manufacturers are physically unable to go much higher in winds. 25.5 is just about maxed out.
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Old 08-03-2010, 11:30 AM   #8983
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NovakTwo View Post
Someone upthread said that Novak should make a 60.00 controller---we already do. We have offered this in our USVTA store since @Feb.
I think they are wanting one that is not re-manufactured that you can buy at the likes of say your LHS, amainhobbies, etc. I personally don't have a problem with it, my RMF ESCs work great. only thing I could hope for would be a longer industry leading warranty period. But, as you can see, thats no fault of the ESC, it does what I expect and I like its features.
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Old 08-05-2010, 03:19 PM   #8984
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On a different subject, and too late to help anyone i am sure. who ever came up with the idea that a 4 cell 27 turn could be competitive with a 21.5 and lipo, must have really hit their head hard.
On the other hand a 6cell nihm and 27 turn makes it much closer, but in my own opinion to fast. I like the direction they are taking the vta class, they are a blast to drive.
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Old 08-05-2010, 03:43 PM   #8985
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Is there a pinion gear and spur grar chart for the 25.5 motors yet? i am looking for a good starting point for gearing my vta car thanks
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