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Old 05-21-2010, 07:08 AM   #8701
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+1 on the springs/shocks suggestions.

Also, you don't say what battery spec you're running with that 27T motor. Are you running 4-cell NiMH (original spec) or a 2s LiPo? If you're running a 2s LiPo you're putting substantially more power/speed into the equation than even the current 21.5's and you WILL experience a fair bit more tire wear than is the "norm". One of the things we're kinda hoping is that the tire wear will return to earlier levels when we slide down the power scale a tad with the 25.5 for next season.
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Old 05-21-2010, 07:22 AM   #8702
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I'm currently running the 25.5 and tire wear is not an issue. Should get a lot of run time provided your setup is correct or close to it. Used a new set of tires last weekend and they look almost new. Just scrubbed the shine off them and traction was great.
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Old 05-21-2010, 07:32 AM   #8703
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+2 on the springs and shocks. If the track surface has good grip, you can go stiffer and lower; with less grip, go taller and softer.

I've noticed that the VTA tires have a bit of built-in camber due to their somewhat unusual construction. I've typically gone with 0 to .5 camber on both ends to get even tire wear.
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Old 05-21-2010, 08:00 AM   #8704
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I've noticed that the VTA tires have a bit of built-in camber due to their somewhat unusual construction. I've typically gone with 0 to .5 camber on both ends to get even tire wear.
+1. After trying out a completely different setup last week I found the same thing. 0 worked best and 1 was about the most that made sense. Tires looked really good by the end of the day with no death groove.
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Old 05-21-2010, 08:48 AM   #8705
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I was using old 3600 wolf packs that I hacked up to make 4cell packs. Two of them were ok and one of the packs had no punch or top end, but nothing like a matched pack. I did run a 2cell lipo for a short time so the other racers could see that that combo was just too much.

I can't wait till we start racing.
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Old 05-22-2010, 08:32 PM   #8706
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Was there ever any testing with a 1s lipo and say a 17.5?
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Old 05-22-2010, 09:01 PM   #8707
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We did some 1s testing here and I think the 1s/17.5 would have been PERFECT...very close to the original 4-cell/27T spec in terms of performance. The "powers", however, and their local buddies are all TC guys so the idea of asking folks to buy a $50 battery to run with a motor almost everybody already has/had was, apparently, less palatable than asking them to buy a $80-90 motor (or $45 if you happen to already run a Ballistic) to run with a battery everybody already had.

The 2s/25.5 is definitely a step in the right direction. Not a big enough step when such an obvious combo was staring us in the face, but a step nonetheless.
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Old 05-22-2010, 09:18 PM   #8708
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May be I missed it but what' wrong with the 2s / 21.5 combo?
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Old 05-22-2010, 10:31 PM   #8709
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Don't know how you could have missed it, what with all the roaring and gnashing of teeth and all...

The 2s/21.5 spec turned out to be far faster than the original intent of the class had been and was coming perilously close to TC/RCGT lap times. The class has to have a distinct driving experience from other classes if it is to survive an period of time. Hence the need to slow the class back down.

From there it was a matter of how to accomplish that end.
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Old 05-23-2010, 05:56 AM   #8710
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbulb View Post
May be I missed it but what' wrong with the 2s / 21.5 combo?
there is nothing wrong with it...as long as your club is willing to regulate the speed controllers....the 21.5/lipo combo didnt have any problems(bad) till the esc came into play with all the advanced time stuff...the SPX,Tekins are really the blame..imo....but with some light modifications on the profiles the class settles really nice into a seprate tc class...with a different feel and drive experience....

we ran these at the Novak,Grand Prix,Scale Nats and alot of clubs are using this as the guilde line for the class..incl us and most of the clubs across the country....

"USVTA will be the CURRENT rules on the website with the following
No one ways - diff or spool only

Tekin max Vegas 200 NO TURBO
Mamba pro NO CHEAT MODE
LRP SPX profile 4
LRP TC Spec profile 6
LRP SPHERE Comp profile 6
KO BMC TBD
SpeedPassion Software versions 091231 and any software start with 10XXXX are illegal
No Black diamonds whatsoever
Final ESC rules will be announced before the race...will be very similar to Novak race, timing may be restricted as well "

most are also going to this formula for RCGT as well...

but also bare in mind that the "NEW" rules for USVTA events will go into effect Sept 2010...and they work as well....work with your local club to see what works for yours...Im USVTA all the way but I think my club will continue with the 21.5....I have two 25.5's and the really do have a different feel...but I still think a FDR limit will help in not burning them up....yes I did ...sucks too...

good luck and report back on any questions you may have...cya
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Old 05-23-2010, 06:10 AM   #8711
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The speed control limits DEFINITELY tighten things back up, but they don't address the fact that the 2s/21.5 combo was too fast from the get-go and got substantially faster from there. Even looking at tire wear--we never allowed the timed esc's here, I've run a Havoc since we allowed brushless/LiPo into VTA, and tire wear went from 2 seasons to half a season (our season is 10 races, all on carpet) plus a couple "away" races.

Myron is absolutely correct, though. The esc limits on timing/turbo tighten things back up so that pretty much any esc CAN be competitive. And these limits ALMOST slowed the cars back down to original 2s/21.5 speeds, but not quite (the nature of "things" is we found optimal motor timing settings, etc), and they're STILL a lot faster than the original spec was intended to be. He is also spot-on that clubs are certainly able to follow the desires of their membership, but after many initial howls of protest it sounds like most clubs are planning to adopt the new rules.
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Old 05-23-2010, 09:24 AM   #8712
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DARKSIDE View Post

Tekin max Vegas 200 NO TURBO
Mamba pro NO CHEAT MODE
LRP SPX profile 4
LRP TC Spec profile 6
LRP SPHERE Comp profile 6
KO BMC TBD
SpeedPassion Software versions 091231 and any software start with 10XXXX are illegal
No Black diamonds whatsoever

I have a request:

When you publish this list, could you add the Novak controllers that are allowed? I have read this information posted in quite a few places with none of our controllers listed.

We have worked with USVTA to make our products available to racers and hobby dealers at a discounted price and would love to have all of our non-timing escs included.
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Old 05-23-2010, 10:35 AM   #8713
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DARKSIDE View Post
there is nothing wrong with it...as long as your club is willing to regulate the speed controllers....the 21.5/lipo combo didnt have any problems(bad) till the esc came into play with all the advanced time stuff...the SPX,Tekins are really the blame..imo....but with some light modifications on the profiles the class settles really nice into a seprate tc class...with a different feel and drive experience....

we ran these at the Novak,Grand Prix,Scale Nats and alot of clubs are using this as the guilde line for the class..incl us and most of the clubs across the country....

"USVTA will be the CURRENT rules on the website with the following
No one ways - diff or spool only

Tekin max Vegas 200 NO TURBO
Mamba pro NO CHEAT MODE
LRP SPX profile 4
LRP TC Spec profile 6
LRP SPHERE Comp profile 6
KO BMC TBD
SpeedPassion Software versions 091231 and any software start with 10XXXX are illegal
No Black diamonds whatsoever
Final ESC rules will be announced before the race...will be very similar to Novak race, timing may be restricted as well "

most are also going to this formula for RCGT as well...

but also bare in mind that the "NEW" rules for USVTA events will go into effect Sept 2010...and they work as well....work with your local club to see what works for yours...Im USVTA all the way but I think my club will continue with the 21.5....I have two 25.5's and the really do have a different feel...but I still think a FDR limit will help in not burning them up....yes I did ...sucks too...

good luck and report back on any questions you may have...cya


Whats the reasoning with the No one way rule?
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Old 05-23-2010, 10:38 AM   #8714
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Myron's list is compiled as a basis for all the other controllers to be on equal footing with the Novak's. As best as I can recall, you can use any Novak at any profile. There is no limit, the only one that would be subject would be the Kinetic.

One way rule, I believe it was put in place because of all the rearending that was going on entering corners. Someone else might have more information.
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Old 05-23-2010, 11:38 AM   #8715
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Whats the reasoning with the No one way rule?
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One way rule, I believe it was put in place because of all the rearending that was going on entering corners. Someone else might have more information.
Some people find it easier to blame equipment for their failings as drivers or as excuses for rough driving. "I couldn't brake--one-way". So race directors found it easier to ban a particular piece of equipment than enforce race discipline on racers. May as well ban transmitters since that's where all those faulty instructions are coming from.

So we have bans on one-ways at some clubs and at the USVTA Nats this year.
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