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Old 02-25-2010, 09:49 AM   #8341
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Default All things being equal ...

The motor/battery/speedo rules keep the playing field pretty level. My take is that a modern hi-tech chassis will be a distinct advantage in the all-out classes, but the low power of the VTA cars doesn't push the chassis anywhere near the edge of the envelope. So old-tech cars like the TC3 are just as competitive as a new hi-zoot chassis. It really does come down to setup and driving.

Case in point, the venerable Mr. Darkside.
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Old 02-25-2010, 09:52 AM   #8342
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Anybody affiliated with the host track feel like fielding an answer?
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I am not affiliated with the track but I was at last years race. There were alot of crashes that could have been prevented if the drivers were not running a one-way. Being the car in front that gets hit from the guy in back sucks. With the close door to door racing in a carpet track there is only a small amount of time avoid wrecks. Will full time 4WD, braking is a option to avoid wrecking.
qcrc- you have it absolutely correct. Last years race was, in my opinion, plagued by a number of on track incidents that would, could and should have been avoided had the cars invloved been equipped with 4 wheel braking.

There, as you know, were way to many "sorry dude, no brakes" comments from the result of a one-way.

My family and I want to provide the best possible event for you, the racers, who choose to attend this year's event without any "black cloud" on-track incidents.

Just to clarify and earlier comment from rced1, The Track at Harbor Hobbies has followed USVTA rules from the inception of the organization, at our Club level events.

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Old 02-25-2010, 09:59 AM   #8343
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I can only hope this doesn't sound argumentative but....Were those drivers told to change the diff to a spool or ball diff ??

No there were no rule in place.

Just how was the determination made that it was the one way vs. the overall skill level of the driver ??

It was in the A main of last years nationals. The drivers skills are top notch.

Was there a expert class and a sportsman class ? Which class were these drivers in ? And if they were experts..were they asked to drive in sportsman after causing so many wrecks?
There was no sportsman class.
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Old 02-25-2010, 10:25 AM   #8344
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Originally Posted by qcrc View Post
I am not affiliated with the track but I was at last years race. There were alot of crashes that could have been prevented if the drivers were not running a one-way. Being the car in front that gets hit from the guy in back sucks. With the close door to door racing in a carpet track there is only a small amount of time avoid wrecks. Will full time 4WD, braking is a option to avoid wrecking.
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I can only hope this doesn't sound argumentative but....Were those drivers told to change the diff to a spool or ball diff ?? Just how was the determination made that it was the one way vs. the overall skill level of the driver ?? Was there a expert class and a sportsman class ? Which class were these drivers in ? And if they were experts..were they asked to drive in sportsman after causing so many wrecks?
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qcrc- you have it absolutely correct. Last years race was, in my opinion, plagued by a number of on track incidents that would, could and should have been avoided had the cars invloved been equipped with 4 wheel braking.

There, as you know, were way to many "sorry dude, no brakes" comments from the result of a one-way.

My family and I want to provide the best possible event for you, the racers, who choose to attend this year's event without any "black cloud" on-track incidents.

Just to clarify and earlier comment from rced1, The Track at Harbor Hobbies has followed USVTA rules from the inception of the organization, at our Club level events.

Eric Whiteside
The Track at Harbor Hobbies
Not to argue, there is no need for that. But rather to discuss this topic.....my one-way equipped car has fully functioning brakes. There were numerous times in that video where my car used brakes to safely pass other cars, going straight and mid-corner. I believe those "avoidable" hacks that Eric mentioned simply did not use the brakes. At these speeds, our big azz rear tires have decent grip and the BL ESCs have plenty of brake modulation to get it right.

Eric, thank you for your efforts in making this event successful. I am sorry to disagree, so please understand that it is not a reflection of your dedication to this hobby. In my opinion, you are doing everything else wonderfully and this event is sure to prove that!
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Old 02-25-2010, 11:22 AM   #8345
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Am I to understand that "top notch" drivers in an A main were willing to say the reason they caused track accidents was because they "had no brakes" !!!! Are you kidding !!? Does anybody recognize the huge oxymoron here. Top notch drivers hitting other drivers to the extent you folks are talking about makes no sense.

I disagree with this wholeheartedly and believe it's a mistake that can do harm to VTA's already tenuous situation. The new motor/esc rules are still fresh and the after effects are still shaking out. Add to this a new worm in the can which now goes to the heart of racing rc, irregardless of the class, and you have a recipe for disaster. This is not good marketing. Many are looking forward to living up to the "spirit" of VTA but now we start attacking the very aspects of the class that we prize so much.....driving and setup.
If this problem was that extreme then the race director should have counseled the offending drivers and penalised them. The situation was isolated and it should be treated as such. Making a blanket ruling for a large competition that will draw attention to VTA will just over-emphasize any existing perception that VTA is too controlled. The spin off discussions can only do harm. Leave the setups to the drivers. Control the race like you would any other....unsportsmanlike driving should be penalised whether its a one way or a crap setup. And i still say that if a driver is that bad and blames it on the one way then the problem is probably deeper than that. A "top notch" driver playing bumper car on the track would have likely changed the setup BEFORE making it to the A main especially if he had already been penalised during the qualifiers.
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Old 02-25-2010, 12:33 PM   #8346
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Am I to understand that "top notch" drivers in an A main were willing to say the reason they caused track accidents was because they "had no brakes" !!!! Are you kidding !!? Does anybody recognize the huge oxymoron here. Top notch drivers hitting other drivers to the extent you folks are talking about makes no sense.

I disagree with this wholeheartedly and believe it's a mistake that can do harm to VTA's already tenuous situation. The new motor/esc rules are still fresh and the after effects are still shaking out. Add to this a new worm in the can which now goes to the heart of racing rc, irregardless of the class, and you have a recipe for disaster. This is not good marketing. Many are looking forward to living up to the "spirit" of VTA but now we start attacking the very aspects of the class that we prize so much.....driving and setup.
If this problem was that extreme then the race director should have counseled the offending drivers and penalised them. The situation was isolated and it should be treated as such. Making a blanket ruling for a large competition that will draw attention to VTA will just over-emphasize any existing perception that VTA is too controlled. The spin off discussions can only do harm. Leave the setups to the drivers. Control the race like you would any other....unsportsmanlike driving should be penalised whether its a one way or a crap setup. And i still say that if a driver is that bad and blames it on the one way then the problem is probably deeper than that. A "top notch" driver playing bumper car on the track would have likely changed the setup BEFORE making it to the A main especially if he had already been penalised during the qualifiers.
At no point did he say the problem was in the A-main. What about the 'top notch drivers' being taken out by lesser drivers trying to qualify for the A-main?

He saw a problem, and reacted to it. It is a rule change for a single race, at a single track.
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Old 02-25-2010, 01:42 PM   #8347
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qcrc responded to my post and stated it was during the A main. As for drivers who got taken out, yes its bad but that does happen in racing of any kind. The difference is whether a problem was habitual or done as a result of bad sportsmanship.
You're right ...this is one race. I guess we'll see if there's any back lash. I hope not but still don't think restricting setup options is a good bet.
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Old 02-25-2010, 01:57 PM   #8348
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I have them on my TC3...and they seem to work very well...I havent broke any rear arms at all....
that looks exactly like my tc3 and my brother's well less the hardware
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Old 02-25-2010, 02:09 PM   #8349
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which do you think is better tc3 or 4 i own both and i think tc4 is better because its easy to take apart imo
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Old 02-25-2010, 02:38 PM   #8350
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I dont know if a one-way caused any wrecks last year, but it was plenty of accidents....I am glad to be coming back at another shot at the best...I dont care if we run 2wd cars, as long as I get the chance to race....If we all have diffs, lets run diffs, if its spools, lets run spools, and if you have a one-way...buy a spool...lol...j/k...I personally dont care....but if the rules say no one-way...get a spool or diff and lets put on a hellva show....

and if you put it in now, you will have 2 months of practice on it before the Nats....

TC3 is better to me...even with my friend TQ running a TC4, and he gives me plenty of back and forward racing between us....

oh just a reminder.....


TRANS-AM RALLY 1000 MONEY RACE
Thunder RC Raceway in Nashville,TN
Sunday Feburary 28, 2010

Race Specification:
- Five, 10 minute mains
- Two man team
- Classes will include VTA and Jr TA
- Laps added for each team memeber for total laps

Money/Cash Payout:
$150- 1st
$75 - 2nd
$40 - 3rd

CONCOURSE WINNER RECIEVES EXTRA 10 POINT IN THE SERIES!!!!


RULES for the event:
http://www.usvintagetransam.com/rules/index.html

NO BOOST/TURBO/ADVANCE TIMMING ALLOWED

Format:
-racers can pick their own partners
-only 2 team members are needed
-random drawing qualifier will determine starting order
-re-sort after every round
-heads up Lemans start for every main
-round 1-4 will have both team members racing, and getting laps
-the final 10 min main will have 1 driver from each team,the other member will marshall
-laps will be added up to determine the winners

example....

Round 1
Team A: racer 1 with 23 laps, racer 2 with 25=48 laps for Team A
Team B: racer 1 with 25 laps, racer 2 with 26=51 laps for Team B

so Team B will start on the pole/1st in next round

Round 5/Main
the team will pick which driver will represent the team in the final 10 min main, the other member will marshall the race

ALL THE LAPS WILL BE ADDED FROM RD 1-5 TO DETERMINE THE WINNERS!!!

$15 ENTRY FEE....FOR ALOT OF TRACK TIME!!!!

Touring Car and 12th Scale are welcome to run on this day as well....

SPONSORED BY KRC & TCR
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Old 02-25-2010, 02:46 PM   #8351
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I believe 1-ways are still banned at the Reed Race of Champions....do people not go to this race because they cant use a 1-way?...nope they still come to the race every year....other factors might be into their own reasons as to why not attend but I really doubt is the fact that they have banned 1-ways.

We had a 3 state VTA series here in IL, WI and IN and we used the no 1 way rule and the racing action has been the best its ever been so far. So it apears to be working here for some of us. If someone decided not to race in the series because they couldnt use a 1 way well thats a poor excuse to stay home and play with yourself....same goes for someone thats going to skip out on the nationals for the same reason. Because all the guys that go to the nats at Eric's track will have a great time and the racing action will be second to none. Then all the guys that dont come because of this rule will just have to sit here on the net and pine away for the use of a 1-way while the rest of the class is outside enjoying life and racing their toy cars.

In the end there is a reason that the Reedy Race banned them and there is a reason that Eric is using the same rule.....it just plain makes racing cleaner and closer. There are all kinds of rules with racing some we like and some we dont if you want to race you have to follow the rules....like the rules or not its the rules they need to be followed.
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Old 02-25-2010, 03:21 PM   #8352
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Good points for the most part but...keep in mind the level of competition at the Reedy is well above that of any VTA comp. There's no 21.5's or D compund tires at that race so your comments were good but lets compare apples to apples.
As for people not attending because of the 1 way rule...you're right...it shouldnt be a good enough reason to skip what will likely be a great time at a great location.
Personally i wish we had an active VTA program in this state and I'd love to see a comp filled with some of you guys but thats another story.
For you guys that might be thinking of not going to this race ...GO !! Have fun. There's some of us who can only wish we were close enough to a great track like that.
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Old 02-25-2010, 03:35 PM   #8353
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Good points for the most part but...keep in mind the level of competition at the Reedy is well above that of any VTA comp. There's no 21.5's or D compund tires at that race so your comments were good but lets compare apples to apples.
IT is apple to apple....REEDY race banned 1-way for the EXACT SAME REASON. They were all running mod motors with spec tires....USVTA all running 21.5 with spec tires. The same group of ppl who race Reedy is exactly same as the level who all racing USVTA except USVTA ppl are not paid to race....

Racing is racing...I would prefer the race has SPEC instead of no spec. Because others are all running the same spec, that is important.
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Old 02-25-2010, 03:39 PM   #8354
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...keep in mind the level of competition at the Reedy is well above that of any VTA comp. There's no 21.5's or D compund tires at that race so your comments were good but lets compare apples to apples......
You are right....with what you are saying. The level of competition at the Reedy Race is higher and they banned it for better racing with better drivers like you are saying....so why shouldn’t a "lesser" more relaxed level of competition benefit from the same action that worked great there with higher skilled drivers? Thats all Im saying...Im not trying to compare the USVTA nationals to the Reedy Race Im just pointing out it works there so it will work on any level and its not a far fetched idea to ban 1-ways.
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Old 02-25-2010, 03:42 PM   #8355
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Originally Posted by Evoracer View Post
Good points for the most part but...keep in mind the level of competition at the Reedy is well above that of any VTA comp. There's no 21.5's or D compund tires at that race so your comments were good but lets compare apples to apples.
As for people not attending because of the 1 way rule...you're right...it shouldnt be a good enough reason to skip what will likely be a great time at a great location.
Personally i wish we had an active VTA program in this state and I'd love to see a comp filled with some of you guys but thats another story.
For you guys that might be thinking of not going to this race ...GO !! Have fun. There's some of us who can only wish we were close enough to a great track like that.
Think about what you said, The Reedy Race is an invitational of the best drivers in the world and one-ways are not allowed (to help keep racing clean as possible), VTA is not at that level so to help keep racing as clean and close as can be one-ways are banned. makes sense to me
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