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Old 04-14-2008, 11:46 AM   #811
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Kenji, I did all the same things to my car as Brian described. I did go a step further since my car started to traction roll. I shimed up my front and rear pin clamps another 1mm to lower my roll centers. I also only ran -1 degree camber in the front and -2 degrees in the rear. As far as traction compound, I applied 1/2 the front and all the rear just 1 heat before mine and wiped them down right after I applied it.

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Old 04-14-2008, 11:49 AM   #812
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Another thing I did was to stop chassis roll was to set my droop to 1.5mm over ride. The rear toe on my car was set to 1.5 and front was 0.
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Old 04-14-2008, 12:13 PM   #813
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Brian,

First, Thank you for taking your time to post the good information that you have already regarding car setup. In reading though your posts you have given a lot of information regarding chassis setup, yet I find it a black art as I am not able to run at a permanent facility to validate changes.

I believe that some changes that are made are driver preference and track conditions. However, is there a mental approach or sequence of setup events that you focus on when working out the kinks of your car setup?

Some things that I have garnered from yours and other posts already:

1. Start with a known good setup for the surface you are running on.
2. Make one change at a time and test out. This is where my quandary comes in.
a. How do I tell that I have a car setup problem and not a driver setup problem?
b. If I do have a car setup problem how do I recognize what the problem(s) may be?
c. How far do you go with a single setup change (i.e Springs) before you are past the point of that change being effective and need to look at other setup option?

Thanks for any help you can provide,


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Old 04-14-2008, 12:19 PM   #814
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Thanks for the info about roll center. I mainly run touring oval with foam tires and sometimes rubber tire on a tc3. Was having an issue with too much body roll when I switched to rubber tires . Didn't think to raise the inside of the camber links. I'll give that a try.

Going to see if we can get some people in Indy interested in this class.
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Old 04-14-2008, 12:34 PM   #815
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Quote:
Originally Posted by majicman View Post
Brian,

First, Thank you for taking your time to post the good information that you have already regarding car setup. In reading though your posts you have given a lot of information regarding chassis setup, yet I find it a black art as I am not able to run at a permanent facility to validate changes.

I believe that some changes that are made are driver preference and track conditions. However, is there a mental approach or sequence of setup events that you focus on when working out the kinks of your car setup?

Some things that I have garnered from yours and other posts already:

1. Start with a known good setup for the surface you are running on.
2. Make one change at a time and test out. This is where my quandary comes in.
a. How do I tell that I have a car setup problem and not a driver setup problem?
b. If I do have a car setup problem how do I recognize what the problem(s) may be?
c. How far do you go with a single setup change (i.e Springs) before you are past the point of that change being effective and need to look at other setup option?

Thanks for any help you can provide,


Majic
Majic,

In order to recognize the problems, there are a few things I'd suggest. One is to have someone else watch your car carefully as you go around the track. It's good if this person is a fairly experienced driver. Sometimes he/she will be able to tell you things your car is doing that even you can't see/feel. Second, I think it is good to try to analyze your car's performance in a multi-part process. You have to look how it performs in both low and high speed corners. If you notice that you are slow in one or both of those, you must tackle it in 3 parts. You have to look at the entry, middle, and exit of the corner, and carefully observe what the car is doing in each stage. That'll help you determine what changes to make, because almost no change you can make will have the same effect in each part of the corner. Every setup change is a compromise. For instance, raising the front roll center will make the car initiate a little quicker, but it will roll less and feel smoother throughout the whole corner. This will make the car turn-in a little better, but as a result will give up a little steering in the middle and exit of the corner once the power is reapplied. If you make the same change to the front and rear, the balance of the car throughout the corner will remain the same as it was before any changes were made, it will just roll less and the car will stay very smooth.

You also want to think about what end of the car really needs to be adjusted. If you have an issue with the car loosing rear traction on the exit of the corner, then it's clear the rear needs to be changed, as the weight is transferred to the rear of the car at that point. If the same thing is happening on corner entry, but not exit, then it's a front end problem, as too much weight is transferred to the front or it is done too quickly. This is again a process of thinking about the stages of each corner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyRC_Racer View Post
Thanks for the info about roll center. I mainly run touring oval with foam tires and sometimes rubber tire on a tc3. Was having an issue with too much body roll when I switched to rubber tires . Didn't think to raise the inside of the camber links. I'll give that a try.

Going to see if we can get some people in Indy interested in this class.
IndyRC,

Raising the inside camber links will not reduce chassis roll. In fact, it increases overall roll, but it does it slower so that it does not build traction as instantaneously.
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Old 04-14-2008, 01:02 PM   #816
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Thanks K_Spec for the camero template
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Old 04-14-2008, 01:43 PM   #817
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Thanks Brian and Kevin... I did wonder about the rear toe (2 degrees, which I think is more than many ran- but not sure).
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Old 04-14-2008, 01:45 PM   #818
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian McGreevy View Post
In order to recognize the problems, there are a few things I'd suggest. One is to have someone else watch your car carefully as you go around the track. It's good if this person is a fairly experienced driver.
OK Brian...next time I see you @ The Track, you do NOTHING but drive my car and tune my car then....

P.S...so do you Ryan...
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Old 04-14-2008, 01:48 PM   #819
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Originally Posted by Solara View Post
OK Brian...next time I see you @ The Track, you do NOTHING but drive my car and tune my car then....

P.S...so do you Ryan...
I'll watch your car and give you suggestions to try, but you'll never learn yourself if I'm doing it all.
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Old 04-14-2008, 01:49 PM   #820
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddFalkowski View Post
Thanks Brian and Kevin... I did wonder about the rear toe (2 degrees, which I think is more than many ran- but not sure).
I ran 1 degree. I probably could've gotten away with 0.5 degrees and been faster, I just didn't want to change a very good handling car.
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Old 04-14-2008, 02:04 PM   #821
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddFalkowski View Post
Thanks Brian and Kevin... I did wonder about the rear toe (2 degrees, which I think is more than many ran- but not sure).
I ran 3.5 deg of toe in per side on my car. I think more rear toe in helps the car finish the corner. Less rear toe makes the cars unstable in trafic and makes them easy to spin out. I dont think rear toe has much to do with Traction rolling as static camber and camber gain, roll center, stiff springs and castor does.
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Old 04-14-2008, 02:09 PM   #822
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Hence that's why Kevin runs more rear toe since he doesn't want anyone to pay him back for the bumper removal service he provides.
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Old 04-14-2008, 02:13 PM   #823
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Quote:
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Hence that's why Kevin runs more rear toe since he doesn't want anyone to pay him back for the bumper removal service he provides.


Socko...you are on KK's list now....congrat.
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Old 04-14-2008, 02:21 PM   #824
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Originally Posted by JonnySocko View Post
Hence that's why Kevin runs more rear toe since he doesn't want anyone to pay him back for the bumper removal service he provides.
Keep it up....lets see how well your bodies hold up after I paint them....
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Old 04-14-2008, 02:24 PM   #825
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He says that afterwards. I am sure Kevin would have gone after the speaker.
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