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Old 02-11-2010, 06:28 PM   #8176
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I for one as a novak customer agree.
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Old 02-11-2010, 09:33 PM   #8177
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Humbly, respectfully, and in a pleasant tone of voice...

The challenge for HPI in something like the RTR we're proposing (which would UNDOUBTEDLY be good for VTA) is that the "margin" for them comes from "value-added" which means including the esc, motor, radio, etc and the mark-up that can be applied therein. Even if they were to go with the "Branded" esc/motor (the Novak components) regardless what they buy them for they'd have to boost the price...and STILL include the radio.

The reality is that we're (VTA hopefuls) STILL talking about a VERY limited market compared to the bashers for whom being able to advertise a RTR car and a 50mph top speed are THE critical marketing components. I'm just guessing, but guessing that HPI's products are made/packaged off-shore...probably in China? That said, when dealing there you don't order fifty or a hundred of something, you order multiples of a thousand units. And the reality of the situation is that there isn't a ready market for a even a thousand pieces of what we're proposing here, much less multiples of that thousand.

I think the shops/tracks that offer VTA finding an appropriate RTR and adding the Havoc Sport system installed makes more sense in the real world. Then by installing the system the shop is creating their own "value added" component and justifies the needed retail price.

Just some thoughts form a marketing perspective, which is what HPI have to be aware of. Yeah it would be nice, etc, but that ain't what keeps the lights on and folks employed (and great products continuing to come out) at HPI or anybody else.
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Old 02-11-2010, 10:09 PM   #8178
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Skottrik your post makes total sense. I can see that being the case without a stretch and although I dont like it, it becomes obvious that the basher market far outweighs the VTA market.

On the other hand since HPI is already building these thousands of Flux Sprint Vintage cars, it doesnt seem like it would be that difficult for them to pull a few hundred of them off the production line give them differrent part numbers and sell them without the motor and speed control.

I still think that the S2S is a great starting point to build a VTA car.
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Old 02-11-2010, 10:25 PM   #8179
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The idea of "pull a few hundred" off the production line works great...if it's YOUR production line. If, as I suspect (and certainly nothing wrong with it by any means) their production and packaging is taking place in China they don't have the luxury of pulling some, or any, off the line. The Chinese (and any other large production conglomorates anywhere else) specialize in comparatively huge orders, they don't do "batch processing" (which is basically what you're talking about). They do thousands of "this thing".

AND to do so ignores the fact that HPI are, primarily, a marketing organization...they need the "value added" of the additional components to justify the production and pricing decisions that are made. Believe it or not, the "stripper" car would end up with at least as high (if not higher) price than the "fully loaded" pieces which creates hysteria in the market place because nobody understands why this happens. The exception always costs more than the rule.

We fought this battle several years ago in the slot car market. Our thinking was "why can't they pull a couple hundred off the line unpainted and unassembled so we can paint 'em how we want 'em without having to disassemble them (heat welded components...not easily unscrewed, etc) and strip the paint we didn't want in the first place. Turns out the arguments against were exactly what I've shared as my suspicions for why HPI aren't able to produce quite exactly what we'd like them to produce.

Oh, Snoop--I'm not ignoring your pm from yesterday. I'm trying to evaluate what I can do to help.
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Old 02-11-2010, 10:48 PM   #8180
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Here is an idea, talk to your local shop's to make/put together a package deal for ppl chassis,esc,motor,body & radio. This could be to simple so more then likely wont work. But I at the hobby shop I go to has made some deals on gear for some classes before, and I doubt they are the only shop to have done this. Beside's its great that HPI & Novak are helping as much as they are, but you cant race at Novack or HPI (no offence). You race at your local hobby shops. You need to talk to you local dealers, I am sure they want to sell more cars and parts.

there my .02
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Old 02-12-2010, 06:21 AM   #8181
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good point.
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Old 02-12-2010, 08:52 AM   #8182
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The S2S in VTA trim is still a very good way to get in. I guess the burden will remain on those who participate (me) to tell people what to do to get it right for competition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottrik View Post
The idea of "pull a few hundred" off the production line works great...if it's YOUR production line. If, as I suspect (and certainly nothing wrong with it by any means) their production and packaging is taking place in China they don't have the luxury of pulling some, or any, off the line. The Chinese (and any other large production conglomorates anywhere else) specialize in comparatively huge orders, they don't do "batch processing" (which is basically what you're talking about). They do thousands of "this thing".

Oh, Snoop--I'm not ignoring your pm from yesterday. I'm trying to evaluate what I can do to help.


Skottrik - no problem. I am pretty much waiting on responses from everyone. Your description of Chineese production lines reminds me of the scene from "A bugs life" Where the Ants are freaking out because the line got broken. IDK if you have seen that or not, but its pretty much a small change causing mass panic. I do see your point now. The simple answer is that its just not that easy, because every thing is done big.

I have a Sea Doo and if someone falls off the back, it cost me about $.25 to turn around and go back and get them maybe. Its really just a guess. When someone falls off a cruise ship it probably cost them ten grand just to turn that sucker around and get them. Who knows what it cost?
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Old 02-12-2010, 09:30 AM   #8183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DARKSIDE View Post
ps...dont forget we had high...really high hopes that HPI was putting out a rtr version for us last year...and it turned into a rocket powered VTA car...FLUX POWER!,,,YIKES....Little to much lol

come on guys all the loyal HPI and Novak racers got to count for something...

we will start emailing...texting....calling the support lines....twitter?
Scottrik makes some good points. Considering the opposite viewpoint, there are other made in Taiwan (China) RC brands that offer a RTR and a Pro version of a car. Contacting HPI and letting them know there is an interest in a VTA ready model would be a good and logical start. So, if you email and/or call HPI enough the marketing department may decide their is enough interest to consider such a model.Discussing this matter in a forum probably does very little to let HPI know there is an interest in a VTA ready model.

The reality of the car coming with Novak equipment installed may be a cost factor. That is why my mention of a Pro version makes more sense to me. A Pro version generally comes with no electronics.
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Old 02-12-2010, 10:08 AM   #8184
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One thing might be for Novak to offer a web special version of a RTR VTA car that comes with legal electronics. They could work a deal out with HPI for example to buy XX number of Sprint 2's with no electronics and then install or at least include the appropriate VTA legal speed control/motor.

I will mention to my local hobbyshop that they should come up with a "VTA Package" since parking lot racing is just around the corner (and buried under the snow).
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Old 02-12-2010, 10:33 AM   #8185
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If HPI does do a roller please make it a cyclone S instead of a sprint 2 chassis. Cyclone S is fully upgradable and a better chassis IMHO.
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Old 02-12-2010, 10:55 AM   #8186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snoopyrc View Post
The S2S in VTA trim is still a very good way to get in. I guess the burden will remain on those who participate (me) to tell people what to do to get it right for competition.





Skottrik - no problem. I am pretty much waiting on responses from everyone. Your description of Chineese production lines reminds me of the scene from "A bugs life" Where the Ants are freaking out because the line got broken. IDK if you have seen that or not, but its pretty much a small change causing mass panic. I do see your point now. The simple answer is that its just not that easy, because every thing is done big.

I have a Sea Doo and if someone falls off the back, it cost me about $.25 to turn around and go back and get them maybe. Its really just a guess. When someone falls off a cruise ship it probably cost them ten grand just to turn that sucker around and get them. Who knows what it cost?
I remember that movie but ive never heard it described that way before
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Old 02-12-2010, 11:13 AM   #8187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zake540 View Post
If HPI does do a roller please make it a cyclone S instead of a sprint 2 chassis. Cyclone S is fully upgradable and a better chassis IMHO.
umm Hot bodies makes the cyclone HPI makes the sprint 2
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Old 02-12-2010, 11:20 AM   #8188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHARLIE BROWN View Post
umm Hot bodies makes the cyclone HPI makes the sprint 2
Yeah but Hot Bodies is the 'performance division' of HPI. I also think the Cyclone S would be a better choice than the Sprint 2, but maybe that's just because I have one.
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Old 02-12-2010, 11:34 AM   #8189
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Quote:
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Yeah but Hot Bodies is the 'performance division' of HPI. I also think the Cyclone S would be a better choice than the Sprint 2, but maybe that's just because I have one.
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Old 02-12-2010, 11:50 AM   #8190
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I think that a Sprint2 is a fine starting point for VTA. Especially for a RTR or roller chassis. In fact, every time I have to replace a part on my TA05R, it makes me miss how cheap the parts were for my Sprint2.
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