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Old 01-28-2010, 10:13 AM   #7891
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jiml, honestly....it probably wouldnt make an impact. The best way is to make the newest version of VTA popular and successful. Some of us are paying attention. Make it work !!!!

Solara and Cain....just saw your posts and noticed both of you have been here for awhile. Nice to see the thought actually being stated out loud. Just think if every VTA driver said the same thing. Old saying says something like " say something bad and 20 people listen, say something good and only 5 people listen " Kind of why I made mention of that second VTA thread. Imagine if everyone actually supported VTA rather than their personal view....That voice would get attention and we wouldnt have to worry about those 20 people hearing something negative.

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Old 01-28-2010, 11:01 AM   #7892
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Ok, please allow me to throw a wrench in the works here. We are looking at a rules package for our outdoor track, roughly 200x80. We have been running the USVTA rules with the exception of allowing any motor, most run the novak anyway, and we opened the body rule up to get mor variety out there. The speed under the old rules was ok for our track, though I would like to do away with the turbo and the like of the higher end escs. I fear that with the new motors that it will be too slow for our track. I have a tekin esc and am more than willing to run a lower profile to even things out, but I don't feel that myself or anybody else should have to buy an esc to run a slower class. Now don't get me wrong I'm not about that all important win in this class. I have a blast racing door to door with other racers. So I guess my question is, what should we do in our situation?
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Old 01-28-2010, 11:15 AM   #7893
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I am actually on the "darkside" as far as I support the old rules albeit with a few changes (21.5 still allowed, open up to other manufacturers, no timing advance allowed, etc). I also don't have a problem with a separate thread discussing classic USVTA rules as there will be tracks that do what works for them.

But, I do understand if you want to play at a USVTA rule following track, you have to pay

Areas are going to do what works for them, out here, we don't limit the motor type based on the track rules I run at, but, guys who also go and race I believe where Scottrik is know to have a legal setup with them.

As this is primarily a class I want to see my daughters start with and have fun, and if I ever go to a larger even I figured might as well be legal, I decided to purchase the Havoc 2S ESC reburb. for the money, it wasn't a bad deal. And since I also run offroad in the summer, the ballistic gives me the option to turn it into an appropriate summer motor like a 13.5 or I can just let my girls run it as a 21.5 in there offroad cars to start off with.


JCarr: for your situation, your group may want to just make a set of club rules that will work for your track. Classic VTA rules with whatever fits. I believe out here that the two sets of rules may be combined, so you can run a 25.5 if you want, as well as the original 21.5 rules used. Maybe worth looking into by you.
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Old 01-28-2010, 11:17 AM   #7894
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evoracer View Post
I hope all you rules makers know that some of us really appreciate the change but most importantly that you were WILLING to make the change. That doesn't happen often in this hobby. It seems this class is filled with people who really appreciate it and are willing to swing with the changes. That's a good recipe for a long lived class.
GREAT POST, I second what he said!!!
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Old 01-28-2010, 11:40 AM   #7895
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Thanks Cain, that is pretty much what we are trying to do, but it seems no matter what option we take we're gonna lose racers. I'm hopefull that we can work something out for our track.
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Old 01-28-2010, 11:53 AM   #7896
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For your area, are you running into a situation where you have a group of guys who want the slower Sept 2010 rules and those who want classic VTA?
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Old 01-28-2010, 01:33 PM   #7897
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No, nobody is wanting to have to buy a new motor. We have a bunch of guys that just purchased motors and don;t want to tell them they have to buy new ones now. I will admit I think the class is getting too fast with all the timing tricks and there is the problem. We want to level the field and slow it down some, but trying to tech the tekins and lrp's would be a nightmare.
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Old 01-28-2010, 02:11 PM   #7898
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I am assuming then they will not want to buy new ESCs either right?

I would say if I was in your situation, I probably would probably propose what Darkside did for a race, require all timing and boost features turned off.
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Old 01-28-2010, 02:19 PM   #7899
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Our goal in offering the low-priced, Havoc 2S / SS Pro 25.5 VTA system is expecting that more racers will be attracted to this series by attractive pricing, than lost through dislike for the new rules.

We are also preparing to exchange old Novak SS Pro/Vel motors (22 old, different winds will be accepted) for our 25.5 motors. As soon as the 25.5s are in inventory, we will add them to our BL Motor Service Option Program and begin the exchange.
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Old 01-28-2010, 02:21 PM   #7900
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Actually a lot of them are running gtb's and havoc's. Now that i think about it there are less of us running the high end escs. I have made the suggestion of running the no-timing settings on these esc's, but we run into a problem with teching them. We have talked about a breakout lap time, but some seem opposed to that.
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Old 01-28-2010, 02:28 PM   #7901
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I guess my suggestion would be that whoever decides to run an esc with the adjustable timing / boost feature needs to provide the means to be tech'd if its only a few people. For me, if I was still running my speed passion stuff, i would just plug in in the programmer card so you could see the setting. For Tekin guys and MMP guys, it would be a laptop or whatever computer is available to have the software installed on it to pull it up. When to tech would be based on what works for you guys.

Or, they could just go with a Havoc 2S Refurb ESC and be legal now and at USVTA events in the future esc wise. not a bad way to go for $60+shipping with warranty, and from what I recall, shipping was fixed at $7.95 regardless so a group could go in together on ESCs. Or they could hunt down some used Havocs, seen those go pretty cheap too as well as GTBs.

I think its easier to justify buying a new cheap ESC that can technically be used for other classes than a motor that possibly may only be used for 1 class, at least, thats how I looked at it when I bought the ESCs.
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Last edited by Cain; 01-28-2010 at 02:44 PM.
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Old 01-28-2010, 02:35 PM   #7902
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evoracer View Post
I hope all you rules makers know that some of us really appreciate the change but most importantly that you were WILLING to make the change. That doesn't happen often in this hobby. It seems this class is filled with people who really appreciate it and are willing to swing with the changes. That's a good recipe for a long lived class.
I wasn't happy with the rule change at first but I have excepted it. I will continue to race VTA with national approved equipment after Sept.

I understand why they are doing something about the ESC problem but it's more of a "better late than never" kinda thing. Adjustable ESC's have been a problem since the day one and I for one feel it should of been addressed way before everybody and their dog had an adjustable ESC. That's mainly why the news of change was so bittersweet for many. Is what it is.
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Old 01-28-2010, 02:50 PM   #7903
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JCarr, forgive me but it seems any problem you guys might have is actually pretty small. You said you'd lose people because of the motor change....
1. where do you think they're going?? What other class would they run with a 21.5?
2. With Novak making such a great effort to exchange motors, only those NOT using Novaks would have a problem.
3. You mentioned most are using the qualified esc's....again, only a small percentage of drivers using higher end esc's might be effected and they have the least problem getting rid of them. TC and RCGT drivers are looking for them.

trerc....this is true and I also wish the rules could have said more from the beginning BUT...also remember that no one had a crystal ball to tell them what would happen with esc's. At the same time...also remember that the original intent of VTA ( I think it's even in writing ) was to "slow things down" and that anything a driver did that wasn't in the "spirit of that intent" was considered not within the rules. The biggest problem was the speed of the reaction. Just think how hard that really is though. JCarr is going through the same thing I am at the local club level. Fear that a sweeping change will have a drastic effect on member numbers.
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Old 01-28-2010, 02:53 PM   #7904
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cain View Post
.....

Or, they could just go with a Havoc 2S Refurb ESC and be legal now and at USVTA events in the future. not a bad way to go for $60+shipping with warranty, and from what I recall, shipping was fixed at $7.95 regardless so a group could go in together on ESCs. Or they could hunt down some used Havocs, seen those go pretty cheap too as well as GTBs.

I think its easier to justify buying a new cheap ESC that can technically be used for other classes than a motor that possibly may only be used for 1 class, at least, thats how I looked at it when I bought the ESCs.

Combining old motors and returning several at a time (for exchange to the 25.5s) will save on both shipping and handling. Also, purchasing RMF escs as a group will also save on Sh/H. We are considering offering a discounted, quantity purchase of our 25.5 Ballistic replacement stators; this, too, could save some money.

We have listed both a customized Havoc 2S / Ballistic 25.5 system and a Havoc Pro / Ballistic 25.5 system to our VTA store area.
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Old 01-28-2010, 02:55 PM   #7905
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I am Very with the Rule Changes that are being made for the USTVA! I am looking forward to next winter season. I think this is in the right direction, for the class. This way people are not dropping money on the speedo of the week!

Oh ya, I forgot one thing,
Solara will you be building a New VTA car? Remember we need rematch!
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