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Old 01-10-2010, 07:47 AM   #7741
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Are you going to post this in the other VTA thread also? And being a proud member of roar maybe you know the answer to this, are the rules made by one person or a board of many?
No need to post it in the other thread unless people make comment re: my comparisons there. You made comment here, I'm answering here. Simple, no?

As far as ROAR and class rules, I have not been SPECIFICALLY involved in this, but my understanding is that rules changes are proposed by "standing committees" (ref. ROAR Bylaws Article IX) which can have as few as one member (Chairman) and as many members (or not) as the committee decides to have. The Ex-Com appoints the Chairman and the Chairman reports to the Ex-Com. These committees exist, at least some of the time, for purposes including creating and modifying rules for the individual racing classes sanctioned by ROAR. When one of these committees creates a rules change I BELIEVE (ie. don't know for fact) these changes are submitted to the Ex-Com by the Chairman and are voted into place by the Ex-Com. According to ROAR Bylaws Article VI Item J a voting quorum exists when four Ex-Com members are "present" for the meeting. They can either accept, reject, or refer the change back to the committee. My understanding is that it is very rare for the Ex-Com to do anything other than accept the rules packages if they are properly written, etc.

NOT a huge general vote. I think it would surprise you how few people really are involved in the process, beyond merely commenting, even with a comparatively large organization like ROAR. USVTA is a very small organization (one Ex-Com member) and no formalized structure...much as many smaller racing groups are.

Here's another example: How many people "vote" on the rules Scotty Ernst accepts at the IIC (Vegas) or the Novak race? These are two of the biggest races in the US. Scotty creates and modifies rules HE feels are in the best interests of his events. For the Novak race (going on this weekend) Scotty decided to ban the Black Diamond esc due to availability concerns. In the past he's decided to not allow brushless, to mandate brushless, to change spec tires, any number of things that have not necessarily been popular with all his constituencies. However there's NEVER a shortage of folks lining up to fill his races to the brim. Go figure.

SHOULD USVTA create a more formalized structure? Had you read the article I linked to that I wrote a year and a half ago you would see that I think EVENTUALLY they will need to. What I'd like to see first is a method of moving the USVTA Nationals to other geographic areas and the creation of a Regional process. But for now, and given the size, a committee of one is probably exactly the right thing. I haven't always agreed with the changes either--as has been well-documented I have been opposed to the 2s / 21.5 combo from the very first. That combo was/will be the "rule" of the land for two years (plus a couple months) and it will be superceeded by the new. I would guess that this combo could be "locked in" as the power combo for two years as well and be reviewed at that time to see if it still met the needs of the organization.
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Old 01-10-2010, 08:13 AM   #7742
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It is a very helpful book, with one notable exception: It does NOT address the issue of traction roll. I even talked to Martin Crisp (the guy who wrote it) at Cleveland and he said he'd learned some things about carpet racing since then. For traction roll, the way to correct it goes against what you would naturally think. Go softer with your suspension, either with softer springs or by leaning the shocks in at a steeper angle. You actually want the chassis to lean more so that it doesn't transfer so much weight to the outside tires.
yeah that does sound different than what I was thinking going to stiffen up the front suspension.

does that book address progressive springs in touring car? I got a set of them, thinking of just testing them out to see how they perform.
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Old 01-10-2010, 08:28 AM   #7743
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Progressive springs? Once again...WAY over-thinking this thing

The book doesn't specifically say "do this with progressive springs" but you would look at the effects of stiffening springs, etc.

FIRST thing I'd check on these would be that they are "balanced". Do this with empty shocks on one of the Losi checkers. Unless they were amazingly expensive I'd be concerned that QC in the mass-produced springs would be noticeably off.

SECOND thing is that the car REALLY would have to be PERFECTLY balanced and the spring collars at pretty much exactly the same positions when the car is ready to race, otherwise the springs will be at different stages and you will have the car stiffening up at different rates.

I honestly think unless you've got a LOT of time on your hands that your effort would see more payback looking at other avenues. Progressive springs are a REAL handful on "real" racecars and have limited application there.
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Old 01-10-2010, 08:45 AM   #7744
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actually I am not.

I just want to know what people have seen who have actually used them.
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Old 01-10-2010, 08:48 AM   #7745
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I was able to find a nice starter car (or at least I hope so)


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This is a great entry level set-up for USVTA racing. Here is what's included: Tamiya TT-01 chassis, Tekin G-11 Pro esc, Trininy CO27 brushed motor, Futaba S3004 servo, 4-4cell EP 4600 battery packs, Novak discharge tray, extra parts and I'll even throw in a brand new HPI 2 channel AM radio system (not pictured). I upgraded the car with the following parts: Ball diffs. on the front and rear, Tamiya aluminum shocks, carbon fiber support plate, 3racing cvd's and hubs, adjustable tie rods and adjustable upper arms on the front and rear.
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Old 01-10-2010, 10:51 AM   #7746
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Apparently some people dont know what a democracy is about. Why force feed something most of the racers dont want.
First the new rules are designed to help the new racers. But oh wait! No old stuff (esc, batteries and motors) that newbies can afford. And you think I HAVE IT WRONG!!
SCT is looking like a MUCH better choice the more I listen to these "out of touch" backers talk. It is looking as though that class will be around long after this class dies.
A DEMOCRACY is two wolves and one chicken deciding what to eat for lunch. It is also a sure way keep the "haves and have nots" status quo. A sure way to breed discouragement.

A REPUBLIC is a governing body that listens to comment and input before it makes the rules with the intention to make things good for all.

I wrote the original rules for Vintage Trans-Am in October 2007 with Scott Ernst of Trackside. The rules we published were for Trackside and their racers.

Doug Carted took the next step in Jan 2008 and massaged the rules to create the USVTA with forward thinking and considering all the possiblities to grow the class.

Rob King stepped up and volenteered to take the USVTA reigns when Doug had to bow out. Rob has taken the next evolution to grow the class by leveling the playing field and scheduled Sept 2010 as the implementation date. Rob will tell you it is a thankless job as you can plainly see illustrated in the last 40 or so pages here. Have you ever offered to “help” Rob out in his non-paying volunteer work?

Maybe if USVTA was a dues paying organization things would be different. It is just a set of well thought out standardized rules for racers to follow if they wish. As said many times before, follow them to a "tee" or alter them to suit your local needs. Just know that if there is a sanctioned event the published rules are the gospel.

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SCT is looking like a MUCH better choice
I'm certain they will be happy to have you, Good Bye......
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Old 01-10-2010, 11:08 AM   #7747
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A DEMOCRACY is two wolves and one chicken deciding what to eat for lunch. It is also a sure way keep the "haves and have nots" status quo.
Marty--that is, without doubt, the absolute BEST description of "democracy" I have ever seen. I LOVE it.
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Old 01-10-2010, 11:14 AM   #7748
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I don't know what the goal of all the debate is for on this. The people involved in rule making and organization of US VTA should be deciding for the masses in their decisions of equal racing. People who can't be involved in the rule making should just conform and race and be done with it.

So what if there is a manufacturer that the organizers are partial too. Novak provides the most versatile assortment of products easily tunable to the specific needs of the US VTA class. Personally, having seen some of the issues other brands have had with different things, there really is no difference and real racers who want to race the class will conform to the rules.


At Hobbytown Oshkosh, they created a Vintage class back again with just the 20T Traxxas Stinger motor in order to allow people who want a "drivers" race, and a "spec" race to be able to have fun again. The US VTA class that is pre-Sept 2010 is getting out of hand and speeds are reminding people of touring car classes and fewer are showing up for that specific class. They still run both VTA classes now, but the Brushless and 27T drivers know that the changes are coming.
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Old 01-10-2010, 04:24 PM   #7749
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Well as far as I can tell all 3 of the main tracks around Indiana will be following the New USVTA rules. Many are just trying to figure out how they are making the transition by Sept.1st
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Old 01-10-2010, 04:32 PM   #7750
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some1 should ask barack what he thinks the laws should be? next press conference some1 get a correspondent to bring it up.

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Old 01-10-2010, 04:55 PM   #7751
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Well as far as I can tell all 3 of the main tracks around Indiana will be following the New USVTA rules. Many are just trying to figure out how they are making the transition by Sept.1st
Where at? I know of Summit and Indy Slots but whats the other one?
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Old 01-10-2010, 05:40 PM   #7752
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I have not read this thread in a while but I've heard a lot rumblings about these cars getting to fast. Our track is also trying to take measures to slow things down. The one thing I have not hear to many people talk about is changing to 1S Lipo. This would definitely slow things down and end the ESC wars.

What's everyone thought?
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Old 01-10-2010, 05:42 PM   #7753
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i think 1S lipo has been discussed back quite a few pages ago.
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Old 01-10-2010, 05:46 PM   #7754
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Originally Posted by hogmansp View Post
A guy at the track updated his car for the new driver rule and was wondering if this was legal?

This is 100% legal and also encouraged
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Old 01-10-2010, 05:59 PM   #7755
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I am still trying to find the setup sheet for Josh Hoenstien's TC5. Can someone post a link to it. Thanks.
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