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Old 04-12-2008, 06:16 AM   #751
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Have you ever even raced an RC car? There is just so much wrong with your argument against this class not too mention back to your original argument of running pan cars in vintage trans am as far as i know pan cars dont use hex hubs which also mean they cant use the wheels mandated by the rules which more or less means they cant us the tires also mandated by the rules. Plain and simple most of your TC hating nature doesnt leave you with much of a leg to stand on in this class
Look, you're the one that was attempting to use an argument using "mechanical grip" as your defense - so it'd be my guess that you not only don't race or own RC cars, or have so little understanding of the concept or comprehension of the term that you must not have finished high school.

Secondly, why don't you brush up on your reading comprehension - AND THEN you can go back and re-read my posts. You'll note that not only did I never try to totally poo-poo the concept in and of itself.
I'm actually all for it.
All I ever did was compare it's rationality against exactly you guys' reasons why pan cars should not be allowed to run in an additional class of their own -- point being, all the reasons you justified running TC made pan cars just as justifiable option and likely more, while all your arguments against pan cars was equal justification why TC shouldn't be used either.

And finally, you must have never actually had an RC car you worked on yourself because grasping at straws - like your latest "wheel hex" ploy - shows a total lack of experience.
And, once again, the only reason they have the wheel hex thing written in is because TC have to use wheel hexes, and your rationale of exclusion is tantamount to not allowing someone to vote because they're black or a woman.
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Old 04-12-2008, 06:22 AM   #752
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that last paragraph made no sense and i have owned RC cars since 1987 and have been racing since 02...not to mention i have been auto-xing 1:1 cars and work on them for a living for the past several years so yes i do know a little bit about mechanical grip and its all limited by tires so i am not sure where you come off saying its not.

And once again pan cars dont use wheel hexes, TCs do therefore a pan car does not fit one of the very few rules that this class has to use not only the vintage rims but one of the main limiting factors which is in fact the tires.
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Old 04-12-2008, 06:35 AM   #753
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that last paragraph made no sense and i have owned RC cars since 1987 and have been racing since 02...not to mention i have been auto-xing 1:1 cars and work on them for a living for the past several years so yes i do know a little bit about mechanical grip and its all limited by tires so i am not sure where you come off saying its not.

And once again pan cars dont use wheel hexes, TCs do therefore a pan car does not fit one of the very few rules that this class has to use not only the vintage rims but one of the main limiting factors which is in fact the tires.

If your first paragraph was anything close to being the truth you would have understood the difference between "mechanical grip" and "aerodynamic grip" - and not confused the terms or used them wrongly in your rants. So thus, not only did your argument not fly - but it shows you're lying about your 1:1 experience as well.

At least do yourself a favor and read up on topics and terms you intend to use, at least in that way you won't sound foolish.
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Old 04-12-2008, 06:43 AM   #754
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If your first paragraph was anything close to being the truth you would have understood the difference between "mechanical grip" and "aerodynamic grip" - and not confused the terms or used them wrongly in your rants. So thus, not only did your argument not fly - but it shows you're lying about your 1:1 experience as well.

At least do yourself a favor and read up on topics and terms you intend to use, at least in that way you won't sound foolish.
i took your advice and looked it up and you would be really suprised as to what i came up with:

The same principle that allows an airplane to rise off the ground by creating lift under its wings is used in reverse to apply force that presses the race car against the surface of the track. This effect is referred to as "aerodynamic grip" and is distinguished from "mechanical grip," which is a function of the car mass repartition, tires and suspension.
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Old 04-12-2008, 07:21 AM   #755
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Regarding the TC chassis vs. Pan Car chassis vs. Multiple Class argument....

What would be the issue with having two TA classes....

The first class could be the original 4WD Touring car class currently listed in the rules.

The second class could be "Any NON-touring car chassis that fits under the currently approved bodies" class. And by "fits" i mean the car LOOKS good. Tires don't stick out and the body doesn't sit 4 inches from the pavement/carpet. That way old school racers could dust off their RC10 Dual sports, narrow the track of their pan cars and most importantly; HAVE FUN. It might take some ingenuity to make the older cars look good under those bodies, but who doesn't like to tinker on their cars? I've managed to narrow a Bolink Eliminator 10 and it looks pretty good with a Barracuda body sitting on it!

By making motors, batteries, tires, wheels and bodies equal i think it'd be interesting to see all of the cars from yesteryear bashing it out for fun and bragging rights.
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Old 04-12-2008, 07:23 AM   #756
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i took your advice and looked it up
Happy to be of help..................
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Old 04-12-2008, 07:26 AM   #757
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Regarding the TC chassis vs. Pan Car chassis vs. Multiple Class argument....

What would be the issue with having two TA classes....

The first class could be the original 4WD Touring car class currently listed in the rules.

The second class could be "Any NON-touring car chassis that fits under the currently approved bodies" class. And by "fits" i mean the car LOOKS good. Tires don't stick out and the body doesn't sit 4 inches from the pavement/carpet. That way old school racers could dust off their RC10 Dual sports, narrow the track of their pan cars and most importantly; HAVE FUN. It might take some ingenuity to make the older cars look good under those bodies, but who doesn't like to tinker on their cars? I've managed to narrow a Bolink Eliminator 10 and it looks pretty good with a Barracuda body sitting on it!

By making motors, batteries, tires, wheels and bodies equal i think it'd be interesting to see all of the cars from yesteryear bashing it out for fun and bragging rights.
Well said...........

........and my point exactly.

But get ready to duck because they be slinging mud at you in no time.
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Old 04-12-2008, 09:49 AM   #758
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Something I've thought is how would we make the current HPI vintage rubber wheels work on a pan car. I know that there used to be wheel adapters for putting hex wheels on a pan car. However, it has probably been years since I've seen any. The only current car that I know of that has hex wheel options is the Tamiya F103GT (http://www.tamiyausa.com/product/ite...oduct-id=58367). Now this car might be a good platform for a 2wd chassis class.

I do know that "back in the day" (before I seriously raced) people used to put rubber over their foam tires. There also used to be treaded tires available for pans cars, but I've only seen them on ebay. Unfortunately for most people the best option for pan cars on carpet is going to be foam tires I doubt BSR or another tire company will make a rubber tire to work on carpet. I'm not aware of any cap tire that would currently work on carpet.

Now for those individuals who've talked about running faster motors on large outdoor tracks, a 2wd pan car with cap or foam tires might be a great option. Might be a great idea for a parking lot series.

Right now with what this class is trying to achieve any TC might be easier to get going. However, there is no reason to not look towards the future or exclude a potential group of racers. The best thing about this or any forum is an open exchange of ideas. I appreciate that RocketRob has added some interesting points to this thread. Whether you agree with someone or not, I think it is always good to challenge status quo.
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Old 04-12-2008, 04:57 PM   #759
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Well after running into an old rc racer it looks like we will be doing a demonstration with Vintage Trans-Am and 200mm GT cars on Saturday at a Car Show. Show is for Hot Rods and muscle cars, so what better crowd!!

I'm looking for more racers here in Colorado, so if your in the area and what to enjoy a car show and show off our stuff, get in touch with me.

The show is a fund raiser for local charities and will have a Corvette C6 that is bein raffled off for Habitat for Humanities. Entry fee for the full size cars goes to other charities and spectators entry fee is cash or food for the local food bank.
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Old 04-12-2008, 05:44 PM   #760
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Unfortunately for most people the best option for pan cars on carpet is going to be foam tires I doubt BSR or another tire company will make a rubber tire to work on carpet. I'm not aware of any cap tire that would currently work on carpet.
Jaco Greens amd Jaco Yellow work excellent on carpet. Have been running them for a long time.
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Old 04-12-2008, 11:49 PM   #761
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I didn't realize Jaco still made soft rubber pan car tires. Thanks for the info.
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Old 04-13-2008, 06:37 AM   #762
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This has to be said:
Looking at his posts, RocketRob40 is not a kid, but he has the "change the rules and start new classes for me" mentality that seems to be common among the "me" generation kids who feel entitled to whatever they want. He also assumes that many people support his point of view, because it is his view, and he is right, dammit.

The post that said if you don't like the class, start your own is 100% right. The dilution of classes in r/c has gotten out of control. If you want to race, then you have to follow the rules, not have the rules changed to include you.

At our track, a good driver with a tb02 routinely beats xrays, trf tamiyas, etc in the trans-am class. The speed of the class and the tire's lower grip level negates some of the handling advantages of the newer chassis designs. Not all of them, but a good driver can easily overcome those.

And by the way, in r/c racing, tires have by far the largest impact on handling, and saying otherwise is just foolish. Since all of the tires in trans-am are the same, the next impact on handling is suspension setup, not how new the chassis is. Shocks, droop, swaybars, and other suspension setup variables can be utilized on virtually any chassis to get decent handling response, whether your chassis is stiff or flexible, etc.

In short, to those who continually want the rules bent to suit them, if you don't like the rules, race in another class, or don't race at all, you choice. BUT STOP RUINING THE FUN FOR EVERYONE ELSE
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Old 04-13-2008, 07:08 AM   #763
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This has to be said:
Looking at his posts, RocketRob40 is not a kid, but he has the "change the rules and start new classes for me" mentality that seems to be common among the "me" generation kids who feel entitled to whatever they want. He also assumes that many people support his point of view, because it is his view, and he is right, dammit.

The post that said if you don't like the class, start your own is 100% right. The dilution of classes in r/c has gotten out of control. If you want to race, then you have to follow the rules, not have the rules changed to include you..................In short, to those who continually want the rules bent to suit them, if you don't like the rules, race in another class, or don't race at all, you choice. BUT STOP RUINING THE FUN FOR EVERYONE ELSE

You're correct, in part, but in reality too much of your opinion is based on exactly what you're accusing me of doing (i.e. hypocritical analysis).
Why?
Because this supposed "new class" is bending the current TC class rules to make their own rules.

And, I wasn't in any way shape or means attempting or trying to ruin anyone else's fun - I was trying to point out a way to allow more people to participate and have fun in the cool-looking body racing and actually GROW TransAm rather than LIMITING the field.





Oh, and btw, I recently celebrated my 50th birthday - so I've got no " 'me' generation kid" attitude, just some mature experience based on years of observations and seeing classes and platforms fall by the wayside as this hobby continues to fight to get a foothold in societies ever-widening options of entertainment and activities outside the home.
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Old 04-13-2008, 07:21 AM   #764
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It's a touring car-based class.

Strong, simple and well thought-out. Not buggy chassis, not 2wd, not 1/12th scale cars, not pan cars. It will always be a touring car based class. That's all—end of argument, Rob.

If you want a new pan car class, go find the Pro10 class thread here on this very forum. It's pretty simple, really. If you don't approve of this class and the rules, no one is forcing you to read this thread. If you have any comments, criticisms or suggestions for this class, I welcome you to PM them to me directly and stop arguing about things in this thread.





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Old 04-13-2008, 07:27 AM   #765
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On a lighter note, I'd like to thanks everyone who made the trip this weekend and attended the Inagural U.S. Vintage Trans Am Nationals in Winthrop Harbor, Illinois. We had a fantastic turnout, great racing all day and a lot of happy, smiling faces all day.

Thanks to HPI, Spektrum, RCDriver Magazine, RCPro Scoring, Diggity Designs, BigSquid R/C, Bolink, Decal Designs and EDS Tools for their generous and helpful support. A big thanks to Eric and family at Harbor Hobbies for hosting the event, as well.

Congrats to the 65+ racers of all levels and experiences to competed and had fun this weekend. I already have the gears turning for next year's event.



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