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Old 01-06-2010, 07:07 PM   #7621
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... One thing I am wondering though, since we are slowing everything down with the new rules, and this is supposed to be an entry class from what some have said, I have wondered if those new LiFe packs like that new Reedy one could be considered to be at least allowed.
...
This thought occured to me, too, but in a slightly different way. I'm wondering if a 21.5 motor/LiFe battery (6.6 Volts) might have similar power & speed to the 25.5 motor/LiPo (7.4V) combo. IF they are similar, it could be a way to still allow the 21.5 motors to be used. You'd still need a different battery, but racers tend to buy them frequently anyway.
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Old 01-06-2010, 07:12 PM   #7622
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This thought occured to me, too, but in a slightly different way. I'm wondering if a 21.5 motor/LiFe battery (6.6 Volts) might have similar power & speed to the 25.5 motor/LiPo (7.4V) combo. IF they are similar, it could be a way to still allow the 21.5 motors to be used. You'd still need a different battery, but racers tend to buy them frequently anyway.
You would also need a charger for LiFe, and now you would have a combination that's only good in VTA. That would raise the overall cost. With LiPo you could buy used packs from racers. They may not be the latest greatest thing in all out TC, but will be fine in VTA.
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Old 01-06-2010, 07:17 PM   #7623
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From what I have seen, looks like lipo chargers are also coming configured to charge LiFe.

LiFe packs also can be used in other classes, in particular open classes.

If these are looked at as an addition to the class, then you still have your lipo option.
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Old 01-06-2010, 08:41 PM   #7624
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A guy at the offroad track i go to has some of the life packs. He got them from china for something like 26 bucks a piece or something crazy like that. I didn't pay much attention to the ones he had but they were kind of a funny shape and soft cells. I asked him how they performed and he said even though they are 6.6v they go like a bat out of hell. He mainly wanted them because he could charge them at 10 amps or something stupid so it charged in about half the time of a lipo. I'm not saying he is right, I'm just saying thats what he said. But from what I gathered from him, they weren't much slower if at all performance wise. I have not messed with any for I don't have a compatable charger.
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Old 01-06-2010, 10:25 PM   #7625
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i know that hobbyparts.com has LiPos for cheap. 5000mAh 30C for under $30.

There is a charger EXACTLY like the I Balance from Trinity, but is called the Sky Charger B6AC and can charge Lipo/Lilo/LiFePo4/NiCd/NiMh/PB (Lead Acid)
costs only $60 compaired to the I Balance for $180!

You can also plug it into a computer to see realtime data on your batt pack.
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Old 01-06-2010, 10:46 PM   #7626
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i know that hobbyparts.com has LiPos for cheap. 5000mAh 30C for under $30.
Lest anybody feel compelled to charge out and buy these please note that they ARE NOT ROAR-APPROVED. The "old" USVTA rules require ROAR-approved, the "new" rules require ROAR-approved, and many (most?) clubs require ROAR-approved to maintain their liability insurance in force.

I guess what I'm saying is ASK BEFORE YOU BUY so you don't end up with an expensive paper weight.
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Old 01-06-2010, 10:56 PM   #7627
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so true. Never really thought of that. In my case i don't have to worry about that. but that doesn't mean that others won't.
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Old 01-07-2010, 06:54 AM   #7628
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There are cheaper lipo options out there on ROAR list of approvals. For VTA, I run a cheaper set of lipos that are ROAR approved and they work well.

As for the LiFe charge times, that was one of the first benefits I had heard about them, was the very high charge rates they could take so you could recharge them right away.

Heck, if Lipos didn't beat LiFe too the punch, I wouldn't have been surprised if we were all running them instead right now.
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Old 01-07-2010, 07:14 AM   #7629
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The technology behind LiFe is sound, but trying to introduce them to RC is a huge can of worms. LiPo was a better fit because the voltages were close (7.4 volt for lipo vs 7.2 volt nickel). A 2 cell Life pack is 6.6 volts, far too low to use in a spec motor class.

Also they're not ROAR approved because they have not been submitted for approval.
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Old 01-07-2010, 07:49 AM   #7630
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Default new VTA motors ?

I read this on the net a few days ago and was wondering if " Novak two" can verify the info ?

Now onto the motor. The 25.5 is there already. Novak made it for oval racers out west to slow them down (before the 1C LiPo took oval over) a year ago. Here's a huge problem with the rules already. The SS-based motors had at most 12 degrees of timing that you could advance. When you turn the ring as far as you can- thats 12 degrees. The "N" on the Ballistic is their "zero"- which is truly 30 degrees, with the ability to advance 15 more degrees above that. 12 degrees versus 45 degrees.

Oval guys are usually very technical with this stuff , so I was just wondering ?
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Old 01-07-2010, 07:55 AM   #7631
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I personally think it depends on how you want to include them. If you are planning on making a bunch of special LiFe pack concessions, sure, will have issues. If you are planning to say "this battery is now legal, all other rules stay the same". Things will shake themselves out. In a way, it reminds me of when we went from Nicads to Nimhs. I don't recall any special motor changes (Nimhs need a 30T, Nicads a 27T, etc). Did one tech eventually go away? sure, but it wasn't a forced "you have to stop running them" type of issue.

As for the current non-approval status, I don't believe its a manufacturer submittal issue, as from what I understand from what I have been reading, there are no rules currently at ROAR to submit the packs for, and some manufacturers are probably waiting to submit the stuff once there are ROAR rules.


Looks like for the track I do VTA at, they may just combine both rule sets. I am thinking I may just pickup a 25.5 and Havoc combo for my daughter to use, and keep running a 21.5 combo myself.
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Old 01-07-2010, 08:29 AM   #7632
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The SS-based motors had at most 12 degrees of timing that you could advance. When you turn the ring as far as you can- thats 12 degrees. The "N" on the Ballistic is their "zero"- which is truly 30 degrees, with the ability to advance 15 more degrees above that. 12 degrees versus 45 degrees.
If I recall the Ballistic motors have pretty much exactly the same base timing as the SS motors. Pretty much has to be the case because if you look at the specs at Novak the kV are identical between the two lines of motors.

See this at http://www.teamnovak.com/products/br...spec_chart.htm
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Old 01-07-2010, 08:34 AM   #7633
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In a way, it reminds me of when we went from Nicads to Nimhs. I don't recall any special motor changes (Nimhs need a 30T, Nicads a 27T, etc).
Unfortunately that's kind of apples vs. oranges. The NiCd and NiMH cells had the same base voltage. There may have been minor performance differences but not by the almost full volt (15%) you're talking about here.

That said, if the LIFe batteries won approval at ROAR and folks wanted to run them with no rules manipulation I've never been one to say "no" to someone who wants to race with 15% less hp. I'd wager even with approval you'd see VERY few people even interested in running them "heads up" against the much more powerful packs already in place.
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Old 01-07-2010, 08:49 AM   #7634
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Default Ballistic Motor Timing Technical Update

We have a technical update explaining motor timing on our web-site that may answer your questions:

Ballistic Motor Timing Information
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Old 01-07-2010, 08:59 AM   #7635
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Wow, makes me wish the timing label had the actual numbers instead of a letter and notches.

It just seems like an extra step of teaching by Novak and research by consumers to understand a basic part of their motors' operation.

Doesn't make me want one any less.
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