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Old 01-12-2008, 10:17 AM   #61
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I normally run 1/12 scale both stock and 19 turn, but when our club started, I got a TC4 set up for 13.5 rubber tire. I'm still using batteries, ones that do not have enough for 1/12 scale.

But this class is like bowling for me. Little or no work, get the gearing, set up the chassis and then just charge the batteries. THIS IS A GREAT THING! So I do see the brushed motors going away. I had talked with Scotrick about running the Trans-Am class, so I have the body tires and the other parts. 4 cells is not an issue with me to make the change.

I have not tried a 17.5, but that would make some sense. I'll give this a try in a few weeks and see if we can get this running.
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Old 01-12-2008, 11:50 AM   #62
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id rather run slow and enjoy it, then go fast and spend more!
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Old 01-12-2008, 11:54 AM   #63
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the object of going brushless is not to speed it up.. it is to just allow maximum wrench time and not to have to worry about motors. I hope they find out that a brushless with 4 cells is a tic slower than the current 27t brushed 4 cell way
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Old 01-12-2008, 11:59 AM   #64
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the object of going brushless is not to speed it up.. it is to just allow maximum wrench time and not to have to worry about motors. I hope they find out that a brushless with 4 cells is a tic slower than the current 27t brushed 4 cell way
Exactly...

None of us want to go faster in Trans Am. We just don't want to run brushed

I'm all for BL even if it was slower.
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Old 01-12-2008, 12:19 PM   #65
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I think I've got guys here talked into giving stock a try over the 19T we're running.

Wrench time on these motors at 4-cells is almost non-existant. I FINALLY had my 19T motor go to crap this past weekend, it's sixth race day and a couple pretty intense practice days. In fact on the Sat practice last week it was running the fastest laps in the class for the weekend.

So this "saving effort" with brushless MIGHT be true, but when you figure I can (and have) buy top of the line esc's for $50-60 and even if you don't have a pile of old Stock and/or 19T motors you can find them for next to nothing if someone won't GIVE you one. Hell, buy an old Cyclone for $25-30 and you're set. For $75 MAX (with stuff available EVERY DAY on RC Tech) you're set. New GTB and motor? $250-300...MAYBE you find a good used set for $180-200, they show up now and again, but they NEVER have the right motor you want. I'm here to tell you for the $100 MINIMUM difference (and really more like $150-200) I'm paying myself REALLY well to turn my comm twice a year.

I'm resigned to the fact BL is coming in the "main" classes. One of the absolute beauties to the Vintage TA, though, is it provides a home for "legacy" equipment. If the boom in these cars here is any indication (and it sounds like it's similarly booming elsewhere) folks just aren't having a problem with the equip not being the latest and greatest. In fact I'd say the simplicity and LOW cost of entry has been a big part of the success with this class attracting newbies and drawing old racers out of retirement.

And the best best BEST part is...if you don't want to run brushed motors...don't. There are about to be an entire HOST of classes available to you via ROAR where you can run brushless to your heart's content. Why do people feel compelled to make sure the poo is stirred in EVERY corner? Go run one of the TC classes or 1/12 with your brushless system and have a BALL!
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Old 01-12-2008, 01:17 PM   #66
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the object of going brushless is not to speed it up.. it is to just allow maximum wrench time and not to have to worry about motors. I hope they find out that a brushless with 4 cells is a tic slower than the current 27t brushed 4 cell way
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Exactly...

None of us want to go faster in Trans Am. We just don't want to run brushed

I'm all for BL even if it was slower.
I tried a 17.5/4 cell and it was WAYYY too slow.

I think instead of reading banter on the web, get out and try some combo's if you can-I have, and you'd be suprised how SLOW a 17.5 really is(I borrowed a novak sportsman class/T2 007 for a day). 27t/4cell is the present and that's great, it's the perfect speed......but brushless is the future. Instead of resisting, we need a solution.
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Old 01-12-2008, 01:33 PM   #67
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27t/4cell is the present and that's great, it's the perfect speed......but brushless is the future. Instead of resisting, we need a solution.
Very simply, why? As you admit, 27t/4cell is "the perfect speed". Why do we need a "solution"? 27t motors and esc's will be available for, likely, as long as any of us care to run these.
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Old 01-12-2008, 01:57 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Racer X79 View Post
I tried a 17.5/4 cell and it was WAYYY too slow.

I think instead of reading banter on the web, get out and try some combo's if you can-I have, and you'd be suprised how SLOW a 17.5 really is(I borrowed a novak sportsman class/T2 007 for a day). 27t/4cell is the present and that's great, it's the perfect speed......but brushless is the future. Instead of resisting, we need a solution.

As i posted earlier there are 4 to 6 guys trying any possible combo to find the brushless answer today. I am here reading banter cause i am waiting for a coat of paint to dry as i am bringing a new member to my family here within the next 2 weeks, and there is some decorating that needs to be finished . The guys testing have been running rc for who knows how long... maybe 15 years for some.

And again for the guys who want to run brushed at your track thats fine, but from talking with the guys who are going to be running the US Vintage Trans-Am Series they have been told by quite a few tracks that if they make it brushless they would absolutly love to hold a series event at there tracks.

And i would be more than willing to bet that of most if not all people who have run brushless at a national event ( novak) or another event, they will all tell you they loved not ever having to worry about brushed motors.
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Old 01-12-2008, 03:25 PM   #69
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if i could id make it "silver can only,vintage" cause some of these ride, its hard to find parts for.
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Old 01-12-2008, 06:15 PM   #70
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I tried a 17.5/4 cell and it was WAYYY too slow.
Then you were geared WAAAAAAAY wrong.

We spent the entire day testing for our rules with the new Trans Am Association, and we have come to a final decision about the motors and everything else.



The new website with all of the new rules will go live tonight—after I eat dinner.


Stay tuned.
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Old 01-12-2008, 07:00 PM   #71
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I sat across from you today. I am interested to see what you came up with
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Old 01-12-2008, 08:12 PM   #72
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I sat across from you today. I am interested to see what you came up with
I have your Losi Tire Glue. You left too quick.


Ok, so here we go...


There were 3 or 4 of us testing all different combinations today, looking for a good, solid solution to offering the this class a brushless motor option. We tried everything we had access to, including a wide combination of gear ratios and motor options.

Firstly, the 13.5 on 4-cells is far too fast for this class. Plain and simple, it will be our outdoor/asphalt option with a 19T for summer and warmer climate participating tracks.

Next, anyone who thinks that the 17.5 on 4-cells is slower than a stock brushed motor seriously missed the gear ratios. This motor can easily be made to be faster than a brushed stocker, even on a small and tight track. The brushless option we have decided on is the 17.5 on 4-cells. Adjusting timing is allowed, but we didn't find it to matter too much. We will limit the FDR of all brushless cars to 4.0. This will be difficult for some shaft drive cars, like the TC3, but it should be possible. PRS and Robinson are making very small spur gears and very large pinions, so there should be very few cars excluded from being able to run that ratio. Those cars who find it difficult to use a 4:1 final drive ratio are always still eligible to use brushed electronics. Personally, I will have two cars available for Trans Am racing (primary + loaner), so I will continue to use both systems.

We will invoke a weight minimum for this class, at 1450 grams. Only a few cars came in under that, and most were between 1450 and 1500g. In this class, the weights don't seem to be too much of an issue, so whizzy ti and lightweight carbon parts aren't really needed.


Race options are up to the track and race director at the time, including starting methods, inverting of qualified order, number of cars in the main, direction of main and any other variations on an original theme.


We are currently organizing a 4-5 race series of Trans Am racing here in the Midwest (around Chicago and neighboring states). We encourage other tracks and regions to organize similar series of T/A racing to promote the class and entice new and old racers to join in the fun. We would also like to invite any track or club to offer the Vintage Trans Am class to their racers, using the rules that are outlined on the USVTA website. If you would like to be added to the list of participating tracks, just contact us about getting your information on the Tracks page.


The new website is not 100% complete yet, but we're getting there. For now, it is live and can be found at http://www.usvintagetransam.com. All of the current and updated rules will always be able to be found there, no matter what.



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Last edited by squarehead; 01-12-2008 at 08:22 PM.
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Old 01-12-2008, 08:15 PM   #73
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I have your Losi Tire Glue. You left too quick.
That's what I get for calling my wife and having her say "what's taking you so long". I forgot all about it.
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Old 01-12-2008, 08:23 PM   #74
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Brian lost the glue tube, too.

BTW, Steve, you talk way too much.
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Old 01-12-2008, 08:30 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottrik View Post
And the best best BEST part is...if you don't want to run brushed motors...don't. There are about to be an entire HOST of classes available to you via ROAR where you can run brushless to your heart's content. Why do people feel compelled to make sure the poo is stirred in EVERY corner? Go run one of the TC classes or 1/12 with your brushless system and have a BALL!
Well, the best part of our rules is that you can choose to run whatever you want. The overwhelming voice from all of the tracks we have discussed running this class with was that their racers WANTED the brushless option. People are finally getting the fact that a larger initial monetary outlay yields a lot more track time, fun factor and a lot less work tuning motors.

The plain and simple truth is that this class is no longer built around legacy electronics. The smart purchase is an ESC that will power both types of motors, and then decide what is the best option for you at any given time with your powerplant.
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