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Old 01-03-2010, 08:29 PM   #7471
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The ability for us to simply place a software that was VTA specific that literally could not have any timing changes made to it is easy. This would allow the RS(and exsisting RS owners) to simply us the VTA software and be done. This is cheaper for everyone involved as it requires nobody (but Tekin) to spend any money on this change. The software as I stated prior would have it's own led sequence and or chime sequence therefor positivily identifying it as using the VTA software. There is NO way for the end user to make changes to the chime or led sequence,period.

This software could be tested prior to approval by the powers that make those choices.

Offer is on the table...
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Old 01-03-2010, 08:31 PM   #7472
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Darkside I was wondering what the plans are at thunder. Right now you guys are running a "Pro TA" class as straight USVTA rules, but that was because they were the faster group. With the new rules are you guys going to have a standard TA and an Outlaw VTA? Outlaw being 2009 rules?

I really like your slower class. Especially the huge turnouts and the relaxed atmosphere that you guys nourish at Coolsprings and Thunder. It certainly beats hoping five guys show up so you can have somone to run against.

BTW is my 2007 LRP TC spec going to be legal after September? Im pretty sure it doesnt boost or turbo.
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Old 01-03-2010, 08:47 PM   #7473
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Originally Posted by Randy_Pike View Post
The ability for us to simply place a software that was VTA specific that literally could not have any timing changes made to it is easy. This would allow the RS(and exsisting RS owners) to simply us the VTA software and be done. This is cheaper for everyone involved as it requires nobody (but Tekin) to spend any money on this change. The software as I stated prior would have it's own led sequence and or chime sequence therefor positivily identifying it as using the VTA software. There is NO way for the end user to make changes to the chime or led sequence,period.

This software could be tested prior to approval by the powers that make those choices.

Offer is on the table...
Which pretty well answers the chorus who think it would be feasible for Tekin to create, effectively, an entirely new esc. It ain't.

I commend Randy and Jim for offering alternatives, but the advantage I see to keeping things to what I call "1st Gen" esc's is that it is a quick visual check...nobody has to be "put on the spot" challenging whether an esc is in it's legal setting or not and clubs aren't burdended with tech.

BTW Team Tekin...kudos on the new update!! I raced with a few folks who updated their esc's this weekend and HOLY CAT what a difference. All I can say is "Forget Black Diamond...". Wow.

With the rules as they've been written, ANYBODY can eyeball rules compliance with the body off a car at any time. If a non-approved esc or motor is present, the car is non-compliant. No check this or check that or have somebody power up and listen to what jingle is played...anybody with a working eyeball can observe compliance without having to be put on the spot themselves or creating hard feelings with "Freddy" by asking him to power up so we can listen to your esc.
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Old 01-03-2010, 08:55 PM   #7474
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Originally Posted by Randy_Pike View Post
The ability for us to simply place a software that was VTA specific that literally could not have any timing changes made to it is easy. This would allow the RS(and exsisting RS owners) to simply us the VTA software and be done. This is cheaper for everyone involved as it requires nobody (but Tekin) to spend any money on this change. The software as I stated prior would have it's own led sequence and or chime sequence therefor positivily identifying it as using the VTA software. There is NO way for the end user to make changes to the chime or led sequence,period.

This software could be tested prior to approval by the powers that make those choices.

Offer is on the table...
Hey Randy - regardless of what the 'powers to be' want, it still might be a pretty cool thing for Tekin to do, for those groups that have a lot of RS users and like the new rules, but cannot stomach putting their drivers thru the headache of new speedos and motors....

at least if this version is available, then it gives tracks another alternative to run the no timing/no boost/no turbo speedos and include the tekin equipment in the mix - obiviously, if anyone wanted to hit a National USVTA-sanctioned event, then its Novak-only (since that's the way the class is headed)

So Randy, if it don't take too much effort, can we get a version to test?? I'm willing to 'volunteer' my local program to the testing I'd love to be able to tell all the RS guys that I got a fix to make everything (fairly) level again...

Hopefully the effort it would take to create this VTA-specific program won't be too much for just a few interested parties/tracks
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Old 01-03-2010, 09:03 PM   #7475
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We raced VTA today, 2s / 21.5 of course. I was talking to a couple of the guys while we were racing and you know, I really DO enjoy the pace of the 2s / 21.5 cars. They're fun to drive, responsive, and for folks with reasonable experience and skills you really can get some close racing. That said, the racing won't be any less close at the slower speeds for us and the folks who we're dropping "off the back" (read NEW RACERS) won't be dropping back quite so quickly as the pace will be closer to THEIR skill level.

I can certainly appreciate why people don't care for the idea of change when the cars really do perform very well...IT'S ALL ABOUT HAVING A CLASS OF RACING WHERE MORE PEOPLE CAN BE CLOSER TO THE FRONT. The hard fact about racing is that not everybody gets to win. The fast guys will still be the fast guys regardless the spec, but with slower spec the "slower" guys won't be getting lapped as often and perhaps not get so discouraged.

It really is all about the BIG (bigger) picture. It ain't about what I like, or existing faster racers like, it's about what can bring more people into the hobby and give them as positive an experience as can be created.

Also...our top USVTA times were right at 1/2 second off our best TC Stock/Rubber times on our 65 X 40 track. Too close to NOT be Rubber TC. In fact the top three USVTA cars would have dominated the B-main Rubber TC class.
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Old 01-03-2010, 09:05 PM   #7476
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Originally Posted by Randy_Pike View Post
The ability for us to simply place a software that was VTA specific that literally could not have any timing changes made to it is easy. This would allow the RS(and exsisting RS owners) to simply us the VTA software and be done. This is cheaper for everyone involved as it requires nobody (but Tekin) to spend any money on this change. The software as I stated prior would have it's own led sequence and or chime sequence therefor positivily identifying it as using the VTA software. There is NO way for the end user to make changes to the chime or led sequence,period.

This software could be tested prior to approval by the powers that make those choices.

Offer is on the table...
Quote:
Originally Posted by k_bojar View Post
Hey Randy - regardless of what the 'powers to be' want, it still might be a pretty cool thing for Tekin to do, for those groups that have a lot of RS users and like the new rules, but cannot stomach putting their drivers thru the headache of new speedos and motors....

at least if this version is available, then it gives tracks another alternative to run the no timing/no boost/no turbo speedos and include the tekin equipment in the mix - obiviously, if anyone wanted to hit a National USVTA-sanctioned event, then its Novak-only (since that's the way the class is headed)

So Randy, if it don't take too much effort, can we get a version to test?? I'm willing to 'volunteer' my local program to the testing I'd love to be able to tell all the RS guys that I got a fix to make everything (fairly) level again...

Hopefully the effort it would take to create this VTA-specific program won't be too much for just a few interested parties/tracks


Randy... +1 on this...

If is not that much to ask, it will be nice to have VTA software regardless of what Robk wants on his rules...
It could be use at the NEGS races for example which is a big series in the north east
It will help a lot of tracks and current racers to keep racing this class with out having to spend any money. and upgrade to a different version once a driver is ready to jump to a faster class again without spending any $$$

and for the new comer is even easier, since they will have to spend only $159 for a new RS or $120 for a used one and will be able to run VTA to start and if with the time is looking for faster speeds jump to TC using the same esc.
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Old 01-03-2010, 09:09 PM   #7477
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I certainly think a lot of clubs would be ok with that option. I am hopeful that it will be allowed officially into the book as well. Regardless of what happens I commend tekin on the offer.
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Old 01-03-2010, 09:18 PM   #7478
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That said, the racing won't be any less close at the slower speeds for us and the folks who we're dropping "off the back" (read NEW RACERS) won't be dropping back quite so quickly as the pace will be closer to THEIR skill level.

The fast guys will still be the fast guys regardless the spec, but with slower spec the "slower" guys won't be getting lapped as often and perhaps not get so discouraged.
I think this is important. Discouragement drives away more racers than rule changes ever could
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Old 01-03-2010, 09:19 PM   #7479
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NovakTwo

Not to familiar with the Kinetic, is that an upgradable software ESC like the RS??
If it is, then Novak can probably come up with a VTA software also.

That way both companies (Novak & Tekin) can be legal in the books and be a really easy choice for a new comer since they can start with VTA and use it for a faster class with time without any more $

but if all above is something that can happenhappen... not sure if the price range for a Kinetic would be close to an RS?
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Old 01-03-2010, 09:19 PM   #7480
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I just don't see the big issue with the TECH part. At the USVTA nats last year before every heat we had to hit the scales, have ride heigth checked and the voltage. It would take maybe 2 sec more to flip the switch on? After getting our cars teched we stood in line to get on the drivers stand.


If you have raced at some of the USVTA races or followed the results it does seem that most guys don't travel much for this class, as darkside mentioned.

From what i know of Rob having talked and raced with him only a few times, I can tell everyone he has always been all for VTA and supported it on all levels. He had a difficult decision to make, especially knowing you will NEVER please everyone. Atleast there's plenty of time to either get on board with the rules or do your own thing, which I think local clubs can do if they want.
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Old 01-03-2010, 09:25 PM   #7481
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Put another vote out there for clubs to do their own things with the rules, IMO, 2s 21.5 with no timing is a perfectly good speed for VTA. I commend Teking for offering to create a software to meet the rules. I think the new rules will push more people into RCGT and out of VTA. I drove 203 in my 17.5 car yesterday and there is no way I'd run that much power in with xpatterns or vta tires, lol.
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Old 01-03-2010, 09:30 PM   #7482
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FWIW you can put it back in your pocket too.

You obviously didn't race in those days. Trust me, brushless and Lipo is much cheaper. Brushless motors and Lipos are the best thing that ever happened to this hobby so far. There's a reason nobody pisses around with round cells and brushed motors anymore.
i don't know why you insist on being an obstinant jerk in every thread you post, but you are so behind the learning curve on BL tech you didn't even know about braiding the wires. so you can stop with the pompous act at any time
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Old 01-03-2010, 09:32 PM   #7483
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After dealing with a Tekin RS today for the first time, I saw first had how easy it is to download the software. For local club racing, a downloadable VTA program would be fantastic. When racing against the "spec" speedo cars it would be pretty apparent if they were running timing advance or not. Teching would have to be based on the honor system, but that's pretty much how the weight, fdr, etc.. is now (at most local club races) so why would the speedo be any different? It ultimately would be up to the local race directors, but this way everyone with the Tekins could run without spending extra $$ on a speedo. That said, on a national event level, I can see taking a hard line for the speedos listed in the rules. If someone is planning on attending a large event, I would think they have the means to get a hold of a GTB/Havok/AI to use.
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Old 01-03-2010, 09:37 PM   #7484
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The bottom line is the esc list is going to stay the way it is. The escs on the list have no advance timing, and are not externally programmable. I want to keep it to speedos which cannot be externally reprogrammed. This is not a reflection on anything except the fact that these escs fit the bill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy_Pike View Post
The ability for us to simply place a software that was VTA specific that literally could not have any timing changes made to it is easy. This would allow the RS(and exsisting RS owners) to simply us the VTA software and be done. This is cheaper for everyone involved as it requires nobody (but Tekin) to spend any money on this change. The software as I stated prior would have it's own led sequence and or chime sequence therefor positivily identifying it as using the VTA software. There is NO way for the end user to make changes to the chime or led sequence,period.

This software could be tested prior to approval by the powers that make those choices.

Offer is on the table...
I am standing by my above statement.

For those of you who think I have something against any company, I have KO Propo, Tekin and LRP escs currently. In fact, I don't even own a Novak, though I used to, and I will again soon.
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Old 01-03-2010, 09:52 PM   #7485
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So Sweet Home Alabama is out of the question?
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