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Old 12-31-2009, 11:59 AM   #7366
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To all VTA mayors

i think what most of us are trying to say is it would be easier for the majority of racers who have "the spirit" to conform to a non turbo/timing ESC rule rather than a motor/esc change for everyone

was this class broke that bad ?...why are we fixing it ?


might do more harm then good
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Old 12-31-2009, 12:03 PM   #7367
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Originally Posted by CSeils View Post
I'm just saying that raising the FDR would have been less expensive for everyone. Newbies would still need the equipment but the rest of us would only need a few gears or so. Now we all need new motors and a bunch of gears.

I'm running a Tamiya car. I would need a 78 spur and a 45 pinion (48 pitch) just to get to 3.7 (need a 44 but no one makes it). Large pinions are hard to find these days. I'm not sure that would even fit without milling something down.

Just my .02
Based on your numbers, I'm guessing you've got a TA04 with an internal of 2.13. Robinson makes several small spur gears, down to a 60 tooth. And pinions up to 47T (though only in odd numbers above 35T for some strange reason). 60/35 = 3.65. The only car I'm aware of that might have a problem are the old Losi cars that have the pulley built into the spur gear.
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Old 12-31-2009, 12:06 PM   #7368
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Originally Posted by Kevin Marcy View Post
Based on your numbers, I'm guessing you've got a TA04 with an internal of 2.13. Robinson makes several small spur gears, down to a 60 tooth. And pinions up to 47T (though only in odd numbers above 35T for some strange reason). 60/35 = 3.65. The only car I'm aware of that might have a problem are the old Losi cars that have the pulley built into the spur gear.


48 pitch?
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Old 12-31-2009, 12:09 PM   #7369
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Default new rules in vta

Havoc, 25.5 motor, drift tires, tt01 chassis, friction shocks.
Now that will be slow and will have 0 tire wear!!! Isn't that the goal?

Sound fun??

The issue isn't the new rules, it is that the rules keep changing whichever way the wind blows.

If you truly want to have close, cheap racing, follow the senior spec rules (tt01 chassis, handout silver can, limited hopups.) You can add vta bodies and transam tires. That is cheap and very close. And at the hobbytown in frederick, they are getting 30-40 cars per race with a lot of newbie's.

Putting close to $600 cars into a cost controlled spec class ($300 for the chassis + $30 for the body + $30 for the tires + $150 for the esc/motor + $75 for the battery) will not bring in a lot of newbies, especially in this economy.
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Old 12-31-2009, 12:17 PM   #7370
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Originally Posted by TeamTekin View Post
We understand the problem. We too have a ball driving 17.5 2s setups with only 1S on our carpet test track. The slower speeds really can be a ton of fun and allows wheel to wheel racing without going airborne. It is a problem across the board in RC that stock is too fast. Roar, race promoters, and many manufacturers are discussing it and working on ideas.

I am sorry I missed the discussion and the decision has already been made. We are not going to try and swim upstream at this point. However we would have certainly liked the opportunity to be part of a Vintage class considering Tekin is about as Vintage as it gets Novak and Tekin invented the electronic speed controller.

We are willing to do what ever you need and would love a chance to be part of it in the future.

I will say that the RS with version 183 has no boost, turbo or any timing advance. We can also make the unit chime or flash specific leds to indicate this version is in the unit. Any cheating is pretty obvious on the track anyway when all cars are truly equal on the straights

Tekin Prez

RobK, I know you already made a decision and created new rules, and that another change to the new posted rules will probably creat another 10 pages in one day of discussion, but can this option be considerate...

Just try to get the situation from the racers that own a Tekin... which I'm sure is a pretty large group...
what is stoping a lot of people (including me) is buying a esc that would only work for this class... for a new person coming into the hobby, they can easily get a tekin, run VTA with 183 version as Tekin Prez post above, and when they are ready to go fast, then move to a sedan 17.5 class with out having to buy a new esc and just load the V200 version or the newone that is coming on Jan. 1st...(Waiting on it)


and yes, the MD racers are pretty friendly, is just that our VTA class already have a door to door racing since most of us are running with advance timing esc, even my 9 year old son uses the boost and turbo and have a close racing... so in our case we didn't need to go slower to have that type of environmet in a race.

alright... now I hope I don't get beat up here.
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Old 12-31-2009, 12:19 PM   #7371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Marcy View Post
Based on your numbers, I'm guessing you've got a TA04 with an internal of 2.13. Robinson makes several small spur gears, down to a 60 tooth. And pinions up to 47T (though only in odd numbers above 35T for some strange reason). 60/35 = 3.65. The only car I'm aware of that might have a problem are the old Losi cars that have the pulley built into the spur gear.
I'll look into it but I'm pretty sure that that won't work either. If both gears are too small the motor will hit the rear gear box and the gears will never mesh.

I'd rather buy gears then a new motor any day.
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Last edited by CSeils; 12-31-2009 at 01:02 PM.
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Old 12-31-2009, 01:03 PM   #7372
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3.6 got it thanks
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Old 12-31-2009, 01:30 PM   #7373
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Originally Posted by RC-ProSpeed View Post
RobK, I know you already made a decision and created new rules, and that another change to the new posted rules will probably creat another 10 pages in one day of discussion, but can this option be considerate...

Just try to get the situation from the racers that own a Tekin... which I'm sure is a pretty large group...
what is stoping a lot of people (including me) is buying a esc that would only work for this class... for a new person coming into the hobby, they can easily get a tekin, run VTA with 183 version as Tekin Prez post above, and when they are ready to go fast, then move to a sedan 17.5 class with out having to buy a new esc and just load the V200 version or the newone that is coming on Jan. 1st...(Waiting on it)


and yes, the MD racers are pretty friendly, is just that our VTA class already have a door to door racing since most of us are running with advance timing esc, even my 9 year old son uses the boost and turbo and have a close racing... so in our case we didn't need to go slower to have that type of environmet in a race.

alright... now I hope I don't get beat up here.
the rules have been set..but yet many novak esc's have been added..ss ,xbr, and even the MFG of the Havok pro's web site(Novak) says it has an advantage, yet it's an allowable controller ??

MAybe Rob can communicate with Jim (Tekin owner) and something can be worked out.There's still 9 months till the "NEW" rules take affect. I see Tekin so far as offering the least affordable change (for current RS owners)..a simple free program change.

novak will still get the motor money.
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Old 12-31-2009, 01:50 PM   #7374
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billjacobs View Post
...The issue isn't the new rules, it is that the rules keep changing whichever way the wind blows....Putting close to $600 cars into a cost controlled spec class ($300 for the chassis + $30 for the body + $30 for the tires + $150 for the esc/motor + $75 for the battery) will not bring in a lot of newbies, especially in this economy.
The rules haven't changed in two years. How much does it cost to go Senior Spec racing? Same price.
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Old 12-31-2009, 01:58 PM   #7375
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Originally Posted by robk View Post
3.6
Guys, keep this in mind regarding the open FDR, we are now free to gear for the track we're on as opposed to gearing to a rule that was intended to bring equality between three different powerplants. Since VTA is run everywhere from tight little carpet tracks to the biggest slabs of asphalt every laid, having an open FDR with slower motors will provide great racing at all venues.

Also keep in mind that Rob's avatar is scary, and we should all threaten to quit unless he changes it!

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Old 12-31-2009, 02:23 PM   #7376
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so back 3yrs ago the class was mostly if not all 4cell/27t correct?
and the addition of BL 21.5/lipo with a fdr higher than 4.2 and a esc of that time period (gtb, tc spec)EQUAL to that speed ,correct?
now thats still too fast ?
it now takes a 25.5/old stly esc to equal the speeds of the origional 4cell/27t?
something sounds fishy
why not do
4cell/27t like it was always a option
21.5/ with first gen esc's / lipo with a 4.2 fdr limit
25.5/ same escs as above/ lipo and no fdr
are these not equal if so they why will this not be allowed?
i have 5 21.5s and 4 vta cars and not buyin a motor and esc for each
not hapening

Last edited by jlfx car audio; 12-31-2009 at 09:42 PM.
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Old 12-31-2009, 02:57 PM   #7377
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Originally Posted by jlfx car audio View Post
34 vta cars
HOLY CRAP!!!!







I assume this was a mistype
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Old 12-31-2009, 02:59 PM   #7378
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Originally Posted by jlfx car audio View Post
and the addition of BL 21.5/lipo with a fdr higher than 4.2 and a esc of that time period (gtb, tc spec)EQUAL to that speed ,correct?
now thats still too fast ?
it now takes a 25.5/old stly esc to equal the speeds of the origional 4cell/27t?
something sounds fishy
why not do
4cell/27t like it was always a option
21.5/ with first gen esc's / lipo with a 4.2 fdr limit
25.5/ same escs as above/ lipo and no fdr
are these not equal if so they why will this not be allowed?
i have 5 21.5s and 34 vta cars and not buyin a motor and esc for each
not hapening
In the beginning...ALL VTA was 4-cell / 27T

THEN the 21.5 / 2s LiPo "option" was introduced mid-summer 2008. The FANTASY was that there was equivalence with the "old" esc's, but the fact is this was never the case except on (maybe) outdoor tracks with LOOOOOONG straights where the FDR limit came into effect. The REALITY of this spec is that in our testing on a fairly average-sized indoor track a 2s / 21.5 GTB-powered car was right at a second/lap faster than a WELL sorted 4-cell / 27T car.

By the info Rob has provided from their testing it looks like we're dropping about half-way back to that original speed spec.

Nothing "fishy"...just trying to get back to what the class was originally intended before it took what will prove to be a 2 year blind alley that was 2s / 21.5
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Old 12-31-2009, 03:00 PM   #7379
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlfx car audio View Post
so back 3yrs ago the class was mostly if not all 4cell/27t correct?
and the addition of BL 21.5/lipo with a fdr higher than 4.2 and a esc of that time period (gtb, tc spec)EQUAL to that speed ,correct?
now thats still too fast ?
it now takes a 25.5/old stly esc to equal the speeds of the origional 4cell/27t?
something sounds fishy
why not do
4cell/27t like it was always a option
21.5/ with first gen esc's / lipo with a 4.2 fdr limit
25.5/ same escs as above/ lipo and no fdr
are these not equal if so they why will this not be allowed?
i have 5 21.5s and 34 vta cars and not buyin a motor and esc for each
not hapening
They are not equal, that it why they are changing the rules so we're all running the same thing. Unfortunately you sir are in a bit of a pickle with the number of cars you have. Keep in mind rules are merely suggested...
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Old 12-31-2009, 03:04 PM   #7380
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AND has been mentioned before...

This new rules package completely eliminates ALL non-obvious tech issues. Best of all in this, elimination of FDR minimums which were virtually impossible to tech. And don't tell me no one hasn't figured out little "dodges" like fitting the alternate pulleys to Xrays, etc.

Now all the mandatory "stuff" will be quickly confirmed visually. Tires/wheels? Check. Body? Check. Acceptable 1st gen esc? Check. 25.5 motor? Check. "Spec" rotor in motor? Check....go race.
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