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Old 12-30-2009, 09:19 AM   #7201
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Originally Posted by Scottrik View Post
To this point I haven't seen anyone from Novak state that a program to trade SS motors for Ballistics is forthcoming, just some hopeful racers speculating. I think I DID see Novak 2 imply that a 25.5 SS may be in the works. If that were the case it is quite possible (likely?) that folks would be able to do the exchange of SS21.5 for SS25.5 . And again, it's not like this is the first time in the history of RC that motors have become obsolete and racers have needed to buck-up for a replacement to continue racing (or remain competitive, or...).
I already know they don't do a SSPro for a havoc exchange - already asked them that personally...I'm just hoping they do a 21.5ss for a 25.5ss exchange - to keep the cost of going the new route more feasible

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Not sure if this is the case, but I DO know that the running change on the Havoc esc (effective any esc manufactured or re-manufactured early '08) was so that it looks for the over-temp sensor to be connected or it doesn't go. At least this is what I was told by someone at Novak product support when I was enquiring re: the difference between the SS21.5 and the 21.5 Crawler Edition. One of the common "hacks" to get more speed out of brushless in spec was to run the motors over temp, and to do so folks were cutting the temp sensor lead. The Havoc has less heat-rejection ability (smaller heat sink, etc) and were being burnt up (esc themselves) by this practice so the change was that the esc specifically "looks for" the temp sensing device and won't power-up if it doesn't see it. The thing I learned about the Crawler Edition motor is that instead of the temp sensor in the motor it has some sort of diode inside that the crawler esc (Goat?) "looks for" to activate the hill-holding brake when the throttle is at neutral, etc.

Regardless, I'm PRETTY sure the Havoc system will just quit running if the entire sensor bundle is unplugged. Like I said, I will test this and report the results to confirm for everyone. My esc was purchased in early '08 and appears to be one of the earlier non-protected units since it will (and does) run the Crawler Edition motor just fine (don't ask...got screwed by a seller in the BST area).
like i said, i'll gladly be wrong - but I know what I heard him read from the instructions and saw happen to the car...hopefully it was something else going on that caused the problems...

if not, i see an awful lot of GTB spread-spretums and havoc Pros being used...and then its still kinda back to non-parity issue...

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"Boost" was only part of the problem...needed to eliminate esc-adjustable timing advance, hence "regression" to non-adjustable escs.
understood...
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Old 12-30-2009, 09:23 AM   #7202
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hey like your saying this is gunna be hard to see your locals convert to my locals will not be they all will do RCGT now they where furious
Uh...not even sure what this says. I'm seeing several possible interpretations and Babelfish isn't helping because I don't know what to instruct it to "convert from".

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is gunna be hard to see your locals convert to my locals
Provided this were to happen, and a quick poll of "my locals" indicates they're not interested in converting to MD locals, what happens to the MD locals if our locals convert to them.
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Old 12-30-2009, 09:31 AM   #7203
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Just for a little clarification, I am running a Havoc 3S (1733). When the sensor plug pulls out, the motor stops. I now have a dab of CA on it, so it won't happen again.
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Old 12-30-2009, 09:33 AM   #7204
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I notice they don't even offer a Havoc / 21.5 combo at present though given the news yesterday I'd probably not bother with THAT package now. Surely they'll create a USVTA package consisting of a Havoc / 25.5, right?
I've had that Havok/21.5 package for months now. Stormer has them in stock for $134.95.
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Old 12-30-2009, 09:35 AM   #7205
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According to Novak the Havoc Pro (1735) has " Fifty percent more transistors than the Havoc 2S ESC for faster speeds, higher efficiency and increased load handling".

This esc will be legal under the new rules?
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Old 12-30-2009, 09:37 AM   #7206
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According to Novak the Havoc Pro (1735) has " Fifty percent more transistors than the Havoc 2S ESC for faster speeds, higher efficiency and increased load handling".

This esc will be legal under the new rules?
yup...listed right in the rules - that caught my eye right away
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Old 12-30-2009, 09:46 AM   #7207
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yup...listed right in the rules - that caught my eye right away

Because if they say it's faster people will naturally buy it and if it proves to be an advantage on the track then it too may get banned even though it was once legal. I don't wanna see another esc issue down the road...
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Old 12-30-2009, 09:46 AM   #7208
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I've had that Havok/21.5 package for months now. Stormer has them in stock for $134.95.
My bad...I wasn't clear. I meant Havoc / Ballistic 21.5 combo. My Havoc was a 21.5 package when I bought it, SS21.5 though.
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Old 12-30-2009, 09:50 AM   #7209
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Originally Posted by trerc View Post
According to Novak the Havoc Pro (1735) has " Fifty percent more transistors than the Havoc 2S ESC for faster speeds, higher efficiency and increased load handling".

This esc will be legal under the new rules?
Quote:
Originally Posted by k_bojar View Post
yup...listed right in the rules - that caught my eye right away
Quote:
Originally Posted by trerc View Post
Because if they say it's faster people will naturally buy it and if it proves to be an advantage on the track then it too may get banned even though it was once legal. I don't wanna see another esc issue down the road...
Any performance advantage conferred would be minimal, but I'd say disallow it so folks don't have anything to yap about. Or allow it...no sense folks who already have a Havoc getting a free ride with the changes I know there's no way I'D buy a Pro as I'm pretty sure the only way you'd sense a difference on the track would be if your last name was something like Baker or Blackstock.
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Old 12-30-2009, 09:54 AM   #7210
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Originally Posted by trerc View Post
According to Novak the Havoc Pro (1735) has " Fifty percent more transistors than the Havoc 2S ESC for faster speeds, higher efficiency and increased load handling".

This esc will be legal under the new rules?
Yeah, the Tekin RS Pro also has more "transistors", but the increase in "FETs" is only advantageous under higher load conditions, like Mod. The 21.5 and 25.5 motors won't be thirsty enough to notice this difference. Many of the sponsored Tekin drivers use the standard RS in Stock motor applications.


Novak's replacement program does offer trade-ins for the same family of motors, so you can send in an SS21.5 and buy a discounted SS25.5 (once they are available). But like K-Bo mentioned, they don't do exchanges between different families of motors, ie: SS to Ballistic.

Just a reminder to those of us racing on a budget, use the classified section here on RCTech to find good deals and purge your junk closet of old R/C junk. I haven't spent a dollar this year that didn't come from the sale of old r/c equipment! And before everyone rushes to use the exchange program, do the math first. Sell your current 21.5 here on RCTech, then buy a remanufactured directly from Novak, and you'll only be out about $15-20 bucks when all is said and done.
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Old 12-30-2009, 10:02 AM   #7211
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We, here at Novak, have been in contact with Rob offering ideas about what we could provide to help level the playing field in the Vintage Trans Am series. Our concern--long term--is making affordable (understandable..) products available to attract new customers to both the R/C hobby, and also this series.

Here is the overview of our proposed TeamNovak/VTA program:

~ Offer the Havoc 2S/25.5 Spec System priced (in our store) at 129.99---lowest price offered for any Novak customized, Spec system.

~ Special Vintage Trans Am section in our store including the 25.5 systems, components, accessories and service items geared towards the series racers.

~ VTA 25.5T motors, both SS Pros and Ballistics. will be offered with a blue sleeve, rather than the standard color sleeve.

~ We will add the SS Pro 25.5 motor to our Service Options program, so those with Novak motors can exchange them for the blue-sleeved, VTA motors for 39.00 plus 5.00.

~ I will start a thread here on R/C Tech, so that series members can ask questions about the electronics/accessories, etc. we offer (I have a difficult time tracking Novak questions in this master VTA thread....)

~ Establish, dealer-direct pricing for our new Havoc 2S/25.5 Spec System, SS Pro 25.5 motor (VTA version) and Ballistic 25.5 (VTA version) so that your LHSs can support and help this series grow.
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Old 12-30-2009, 10:04 AM   #7212
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Originally Posted by Greg Sharpe View Post
Yeah, the Tekin RS Pro also has more "transistors", but the increase in "FETs" is only advantageous under higher load conditions, like Mod. The 21.5 and 25.5 motors won't be thirsty enough to notice this difference. Many of the sponsored Tekin drivers use the standard RS in Stock motor applications.
Thanks I own both the RS and the RS pro, I've been a long time Tekin fan and am well aware of the difference between them.

However, while I have owned a Havoc. I have not a owned Havok Pro nor am I a real Novak fan. I quoted that statement from their website and would like to know how they can claim that by having more "transistors" the pro will increase speeds over the Havoc 2s.
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Old 12-30-2009, 10:05 AM   #7213
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According to Novak the Havoc Pro (1735) has " Fifty percent more transistors than the Havoc 2S ESC for faster speeds, higher efficiency and increased load handling".

This esc will be legal under the new rules?
Damn now I got to sell the Tekin and the GTB to buy the Havok Pro and I thought this was suppose to be a cheap class
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Old 12-30-2009, 10:08 AM   #7214
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EDIT: Novak2 got here first

As far as the ESCs, it's the timing advance, not the numbers of fets. That's why Mike Haynes can put a brutal beatdown on anyone with a SP LPF (1/2 the fets of the regular SP) , like at the Snowbirds. When we all were buying LRP SPXs to try to catch him.

I sense someone is looking for something to complain about...
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Old 12-30-2009, 10:09 AM   #7215
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Any performance advantage conferred would be minimal, but I'd say disallow it so folks don't have anything to yap about. Or allow it...no sense folks who already have a Havoc getting a free ride with the changes I know there's no way I'D buy a Pro as I'm pretty sure the only way you'd sense a difference on the track would be if your last name was something like Baker or Blackstock.

Exactly, Don't allow the Pro in VTA since it isn't necessary anyway.

I say you wanna spec the ESC everybody runs the Havoc 2s and be done with it
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