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Old 12-30-2009, 07:37 AM   #7186
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*deleted* keeping opinion to myself.
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Old 12-30-2009, 07:38 AM   #7187
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And what does ANY esc do to "protect" motors should the sensor wire come out? I don't know this for fact, but if it puts your mind at ease I'll test it...I'm pretty sure the whole thing rolls to a stop if the sensor wire pulls out until you plug it back in. Being alarmist certainly doesn't help your case or anyone elses, and this is absolute foolishness at it's zenith.
The Tekin RS falls back to sensorless mode, so it will continue to run the motor. The starts will be less than optimal, but it will still work.
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Old 12-30-2009, 07:41 AM   #7188
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i think its great. much in the line of what DODC has done in dirt oval. look at those folks. they are happy, they dont biatch. their equip stays consistant and so do their (all of em) classes.

much luck to you all, to do the thing roar cant/wont do. save your class!!

to those of who who biatch, most of you wont/dont run the class. and if u ninny ninny bout not being able to use ur duos or ur super speedos in the class, its clear you shouldnt run that class anyway.

as i said to 1 person who just like to complain alot, oddly enuff he also likes to start classes and then roll on em even before things get goin.....go right ahead and tech every1s speedo and see how many friends you make and crowds u keep.

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Old 12-30-2009, 07:45 AM   #7189
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robk - a man among bitches. (keep up the good work, sir).
Awesome......
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Old 12-30-2009, 07:49 AM   #7190
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The Tekin RS falls back to sensorless mode, so it will continue to run the motor. The starts will be less than optimal, but it will still work.
Yes, it keeps running...but what does it do to "protect the motor"? My point is "protect against what". My reading of his original post was that he is trying to imply that motors could be subject to some sort of damage with the "lesser" esc's should the sensor wire pull out, a "point" I'm fairly certain is hopelessly inaccurate. The wire pulled out of the esc on my KO BMC and the car rolled to a stop. Plugged it back in and away she went. I'm fairly certain this would also be the case with the Havoc or GTB and, as promised, I will test this theory since I have both. Havoc in my VTA car, GTB in my WGT and Slider sprint car.
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Old 12-30-2009, 08:04 AM   #7191
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I would really like to see NOvak come through with a sweet deal for us. We all like feeling special...
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Old 12-30-2009, 08:09 AM   #7192
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I would really like to see NOvak come through with a sweet deal for us. We all like feeling special...
Novak is a good company I would be shocked if they didnt do something for us VTA folks.
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Old 12-30-2009, 08:16 AM   #7193
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When the sensor wire comes out on a GTB the car comes to a stop. Plug the wire back in it takes off. It happened to me several times one day. Add a drop of CA and presto it's fixed.
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Old 12-30-2009, 08:17 AM   #7194
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Best thread on RCTech.

I can't keep my eyes off it.
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Old 12-30-2009, 08:24 AM   #7195
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What I'D like to see is for Novak to offer a Havoc / 25.5 combo. I notice they don't even offer a Havoc / 21.5 combo at present though given the news yesterday I'd probably not bother with THAT package now. Surely they'll create a USVTA package consisting of a Havoc / 25.5, right?
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Old 12-30-2009, 08:44 AM   #7196
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If your "area" is this limited in it's thinking...there is always the option to stay with the existing spec. NOBODY is strong-arming anyone into change.

Why is it, neccessarily, Novak's responsibility to create an exchange of obsolete motors for current ones? Did Trinity ever exchange Cameleon 19T for Komodo 19T when the time came to change? Uh...no. While it would be nice, Novak have absolutely ZERO obligation in this matter. That said, IF you happen to have the current motor (Ballistic 21.5) you can either exchange the complete motor for a complete Ballistic 25.5 for $44 plus shipping OR purchase a stator assembly for $35 plus shipping.

And what does ANY esc do to "protect" motors should the sensor wire come out? I don't know this for fact, but if it puts your mind at ease I'll test it...I'm pretty sure the whole thing rolls to a stop if the sensor wire pulls out until you plug it back in. Being alarmist certainly doesn't help your case or anyone elses, and this is absolute foolishness at it's zenith.
maybe i was a bit harsh in my comments...but its a gut reaction to the grief that I foresee me dealing with at my local track. the majority of the guys I race with will come to me to complain about the new rules - not here, and not that one location/area will force any new modifications to the rules...

And when I said 'in writing', i mean seeing the exchange policy online and not said 'novak will' do this...

actually, i saw a buddy of mine have the sensor wire problem with the havoc in his son's car...from what I remember him saying, that is how that havoc determines brushed vs brushless I do know that if a tekin (yes, i'm partial to that system) will just switch to the sensorless mode and keep going - and i believe the LRPs do the same...its just something I'm personally annoyed about - since everyone is yapping 'havoc this, havoc that'...I downloaded all the manuals from Novak's site for the havoc, so i'll look thru them today and see what i find in writing...for some reason, the case i'm referring to the car/esc didn't stop it kept going and overheated the motor to the point it was in bad shape afterwards...just something i feel is kinda a sticky point

what i don't get is why the complete change - motor and esc rules - and not just the esc change?

unfortunately, i am not one that owns the new ballastic motor - and i believe only 2, maybe 3 guys in my group (out of about 20 regulars) that run the ballastic motors...so at my track, the majority are in the either exchange or buy the new motor - so as nice as the 'replace the stator' theory, for some people/places that not an available option...

i do agree that the class was getting too fast and away from the original intent - however, like any class/series that goes thru a 'radical' change, people are going to voice unhappy opinions (take the TCS and their 2010 rules - lots of unhappy voices being heard there)

I'm just trying to 'get my head' around the new rules and figuring out a way its going to work and continue to work in my area

so please forgive my 'open mouth, extrude comments, then think later' posting earlier

just a question - did anyone try a pre-v200 tekin (the pre-boost/turbo firmwares) in the mix or was it always just going to be novak speedos only?
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Last edited by k_bojar; 12-30-2009 at 08:48 AM. Reason: added a few more things
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Old 12-30-2009, 08:50 AM   #7197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottrik View Post
Yes, it keeps running...but what does it do to "protect the motor"? My point is "protect against what". My reading of his original post was that he is trying to imply that motors could be subject to some sort of damage with the "lesser" esc's should the sensor wire pull out, a "point" I'm fairly certain is hopelessly inaccurate. The wire pulled out of the esc on my KO BMC and the car rolled to a stop. Plugged it back in and away she went. I'm fairly certain this would also be the case with the Havoc or GTB and, as promised, I will test this theory since I have both. Havoc in my VTA car, GTB in my WGT and Slider sprint car.
and it was just one the havoc system - since that is what he was running in his son's car

if i'm wrong, then I will happily accept that fact - was actually looking at both systems this morning and not sure which i'd like better, the GTB or the Havoc pro
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Old 12-30-2009, 09:03 AM   #7198
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The rules were posted yesterday. We have 9 months to change, I think things will morph over just fine. Let's just try and stick together, it will all work out.
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Old 12-30-2009, 09:05 AM   #7199
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I hear ya. The changes certainly aren't popular with everyone, but I think the core group of folks who've been with it from the beginning are generally positive. I also think we may be able to "retrieve" some of the folks who dropped out when the tech escalation started, especially some of the folks came back to RC when the class was created as a slower, less expensive alternative to current TC class racing. As has been said, time will tell.

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And when I said 'in writing', i mean seeing the exchange policy online and not said 'novak will' do this...
To this point I haven't seen anyone from Novak state that a program to trade SS motors for Ballistics is forthcoming, just some hopeful racers speculating. I think I DID see Novak 2 imply that a 25.5 SS may be in the works. If that were the case it is quite possible (likely?) that folks would be able to do the exchange of SS21.5 for SS25.5 . And again, it's not like this is the first time in the history of RC that motors have become obsolete and racers have needed to buck-up for a replacement to continue racing (or remain competitive, or...).

Quote:
Originally Posted by k_bojar View Post
actually, i saw a buddy of mine have the sensor wire problem with the havoc in his son's car...from what I remember him saying, that is how that havoc determines brushed vs brushless I do know that if a tekin (yes, i'm partial to that system) will just switch to the sensorless mode and keep going - and i believe the LRPs do the same...its just something I'm personally annoyed about - since everyone is yapping 'havoc this, havoc that'...I downloaded all the manuals from Novak's site for the havoc, so i'll look thru them today and see what i find in writing...for some reason, the case i'm referring to the car/esc didn't stop it kept going and overheated the motor to the point it was in bad shape afterwards...just something i feel is kinda a sticky point
Not sure if this is the case, but I DO know that the running change on the Havoc esc (effective any esc manufactured or re-manufactured early '08) was so that it looks for the over-temp sensor to be connected or it doesn't go. At least this is what I was told by someone at Novak product support when I was enquiring re: the difference between the SS21.5 and the 21.5 Crawler Edition. One of the common "hacks" to get more speed out of brushless in spec was to run the motors over temp, and to do so folks were cutting the temp sensor lead. The Havoc has less heat-rejection ability (smaller heat sink, etc) and were being burnt up (esc themselves) by this practice so the change was that the esc specifically "looks for" the temp sensing device and won't power-up if it doesn't see it. The thing I learned about the Crawler Edition motor is that instead of the temp sensor in the motor it has some sort of diode inside that the crawler esc (Goat?) "looks for" to activate the hill-holding brake when the throttle is at neutral, etc.

Regardless, I'm PRETTY sure the Havoc system will just quit running if the entire sensor bundle is unplugged. Like I said, I will test this and report the results to confirm for everyone. My esc was purchased in early '08 and appears to be one of the earlier non-protected units since it will (and does) run the Crawler Edition motor just fine (don't ask...got screwed by a seller in the BST area).

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just a question - did anyone try a pre-v200 tekin (the pre-boost/turbo firmwares) in the mix or was it always just going to be novak speedos only
"Boost" was only part of the problem...needed to eliminate esc-adjustable timing advance, hence "regression" to non-adjustable escs.
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Old 12-30-2009, 09:06 AM   #7200
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maybe i was a bit harsh in my comments...but its a gut reaction to the grief that I foresee me dealing with at my local track. the majority of the guys I race with will come to me to complain about the new rules - not here, and not that one location/area will force any new modifications to the rules...

And when I said 'in writing', i mean seeing the exchange policy online and not said 'novak will' do this...

actually, i saw a buddy of mine have the sensor wire problem with the havoc in his son's car...from what I remember him saying, that is how that havoc determines brushed vs brushless I do know that if a tekin (yes, i'm partial to that system) will just switch to the sensorless mode and keep going - and i believe the LRPs do the same...its just something I'm personally annoyed about - since everyone is yapping 'havoc this, havoc that'...I downloaded all the manuals from Novak's site for the havoc, so i'll look thru them today and see what i find in writing...for some reason, the case i'm referring to the car/esc didn't stop it kept going and overheated the motor to the point it was in bad shape afterwards...just something i feel is kinda a sticky point

what i don't get is why the complete change - motor and esc rules - and not just the esc change?

unfortunately, i am not one that owns the new ballastic motor - and i believe only 2, maybe 3 guys in my group (out of about 20 regulars) that run the ballastic motors...so at my track, the majority are in the either exchange or buy the new motor - so as nice as the 'replace the stator' theory, for some people/places that not an available option...

i do agree that the class was getting too fast and away from the original intent - however, like any class/series that goes thru a 'radical' change, people are going to voice unhappy opinions (take the TCS and their 2010 rules - lots of unhappy voices being heard there)

I'm just trying to 'get my head' around the new rules and figuring out a way its going to work and continue to work in my area

so please forgive my 'open mouth, extrude comments, then think later' posting earlier

just a question - did anyone try a pre-v200 tekin (the pre-boost/turbo firmwares) in the mix or was it always just going to be novak speedos only?
hey like your saying this is gunna be hard to see your locals convert to my locals will not be they all will do RCGT now they where furious
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