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Old 12-23-2009, 09:39 AM   #7051
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Can't we all get along?

Any way, instead of buying a lot off new equipment, have the following ever been considered?

1) Raise the FDR (maybe 5.0 - 5.2)
2) Absolutely NO TURBO
3) 21.5 motors - Everyone has them now anyway.
4) 2S Lipos - many people already have for other classes.
5) Setup your car accordingly.

With all of the "discussion" that I have been reading lately, I think the intended nature of this class has turned into the same problem TC is today. For those who don't know me, I use a ten year old car with a Havoc system, I work on my set up and try to drive a tight line. I don't always do great but sometimes I make the right moves and put up a good fight. Most of all I have FUN. So far all of the suggestions will be costing me a couple of pennies I don't have. I love racing the bodies but I'm not sure if I want to keep racing this class if it changes to much.

Let the flaming continue.
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Last edited by CSeils; 12-23-2009 at 09:49 AM.
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Old 12-23-2009, 09:47 AM   #7052
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Not owning an LRP ESC, exactly how do there profiles correspond to an actual timing value?
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Old 12-23-2009, 09:53 AM   #7053
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Originally Posted by RC-ProSpeed View Post
......

For example... Novak 21.5 is in the rules to use, Novak did not lower their price in that specific motor ($89), but a Epic Duo2 21.5 is $20 cheaper ($69) and same performance. but I understand is businees
Here are our current prices for Novak SS Pro 21.5 motors:

New SS Pro 21.5....74.99

RMF SS Pro 21.5....54.99

Replacement SS Pro 21.5...39.00

Exchange SS Pro 21.5...44.00

The price you quoted was for our recently-released Ballistic 21.5 Spec motor--we can't realistically cut prices on our newest technology. In addition, we offer replacement wound stators, so the Balliatic motors can do double (or triple) duty. We still offer our new SS Pros through distribution, so these prices are somewhat higher than competitors' customer direct pricing.

A Novak customer with an old Velociti/SS Pro motor (no longer operational) can exchange it for a SS Pro 21.5 (see above). Our goal is to offer our entry-level products at affordable prices to encourage new participation in the hobby.
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Old 12-23-2009, 09:59 AM   #7054
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Spec the Havoc. I don't want to be counting blinks and dicking with a laptop.

Then when someone runs really well (we'll assume honestly), everyone will wonder what profile or timing advance they're running. More finger pointing and bitching....
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Old 12-23-2009, 10:08 AM   #7055
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Spec the Havoc.
I'd be ALL over that in a NY minute!! Unfortunately, some folks get ALL butt-hurt if they get "forced" to use any one mfr's esc (whatever ). I think that objection can be EASILY countered by spec'ing 1st Gen (pre timing-adjustable) esc's. This accomodates the Novak Havoc or GTB, the LRP Spheres, I can't remember what Tekin's pre-RS sensored esc was. That way EVERYBODY has room under the tree to run a brand they like.

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I don't want to be counting blinks and dicking with a laptop.
Nor should you have to!!
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Old 12-23-2009, 10:09 AM   #7056
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You're grasping at straws.

Any of the likely changes will involve (for MOST folks) either A motor or A battery (if they want to be REALLY prepared, two batteries). IF someone doesn't have a 17.5 motor already it would take a motor AND a battery (or two) IF that is the route chosen.

IF the change is to 2s / 25.5 the MOST anyone is doing is buying a motor. The lucky folks who have a Ballistic only need a stator.

IF the change is to 1s / 17.5 almost everybody I'm aware of has a 17.5 motor available to them, so they're buying a battery (or two...I never run more than one, but what the hey) and a booster.

The Havoc combo was proposed, had you read closely, for folks who are just starting out and aren't already invested in equipment. Everyone who's already in the game already has an esc. Right?
You guys have quite the discsussion going this morning, bravo, who needs coffee?

A point about the cost and who it affects, which is always the point it seems. No one mentioned all the folks that already sat out because of the last round of changes. As Scottrik said, the ill-advised choice of 2s-21.5 is now apparent. If VTA didn't want to suck over a bunch of $$$ techie guys from TC, they should have gone 1s from the start.

I run a 9 year old XXX-S with the guys in Billings. For the last couple of seasons (brushed setup), it's been very competitive. I'm sitting out of VTA right now because of the cost to change over. I'm a 1/12 racer that just changed everything over for that car. drug out the old TC to have some fun, as the class was originally intended. If I run a second class, it needs to be 1s so I can recycle my aging(upgraded) 1/12 gear. If the class stays 2s I'll get a WGT and send the rest to ebay.

Jacking the rules around is the 800lb gorilla in the corner here. This class was originally meant to be a reprieve from that scenario. No matter what side of the next rule change your on, VTA will keep losing drivers if you have to drop $200 on it every season. If the rule changes over to a 1s class, good for me, as I can get back in for $0. However, that just means somebody else pays the $200 this time. Truthfully, the best thing would be to stick with one rule set for an extended period of time. If that means I'm out, I'm out. I'm fairly sure the fall of all mankind will not be precipitated either way.

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Old 12-23-2009, 10:10 AM   #7057
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Originally Posted by sportpak View Post
Then when someone runs really well (we'll assume honestly), everyone will wonder what profile or timing advance they're running. More finger pointing and bitching....
Can't you just tech the car as soon as it comes out of the race if there is a complaint (assuming a car impound so waiting for marshalls to run back to the pits)?
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Old 12-23-2009, 10:24 AM   #7058
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Originally Posted by VRacing View Post
they should have gone 1s from the start.
In fairness, the 1s hardcase batteries hadn't QUITE been brought out yet, though if they hadn't been in such a hurry they'd have tripped over the option in another 3 months or so. Then again, at the time they were so fixated on "let's get the TC guys hooked" they'd have gone with 2s anyway.

And in answer to an earlier question, "would VTA be as "successful" had they stuck with round cells and brushed motors OR had they not gone to LiPo / brushless?" I think it would be every bit as "successful" and possibly even more so. The blind alley, as it's turned out, of 2s / 21.5 was rushed into as an expedient choice to, as Aaron so aptly put it, "to suck over a bunch of $$$ techie guys from TC" created a growth spike, but the class was growing like wildfire with the cheap leftovers from the TC transition to LiPo and brushless technologies. Yes it would ultimately have to change, but it didn't realistically NEED to change when it did. Then you'll notice that Doug punched out when everyone figured out the king was naked and Rob bravely signed-on to deal with the fall-out.

I think the growth would have been slower, more manageable, and ultimately greater.

As far as how "expensive" it was to compete in Stock with round cells? I qualified and placed middle of the A-main at our Regional in '08 with two year old cells. The good ol' IB4200 WC's that everyone swore were junk after a month. That said, I took VERY good care of them and had a not insubstatial investment in equipment to help me with that. The packs I ran in VTA through last season were all second-hand cells that didn't get much (if ANY) care. Trust me, I LOVE LiPo as it's far less maintenance time spent for my racing. I just didn't buy into the "it's cheaper 1 pack is all you'll ever need and it will last forever and they'll always be equal because there's nothing you can do with LiPo and..." hype the preceded their acceptance. And has all been, subsequently, proven wrong.
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Old 12-23-2009, 10:31 AM   #7059
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Originally Posted by NovakTwo View Post
Here are our current prices for Novak SS Pro 21.5 motors:

New SS Pro 21.5....74.99

RMF SS Pro 21.5....54.99

Replacement SS Pro 21.5...39.00

Exchange SS Pro 21.5...44.00

The price you quoted was for our recently-released Ballistic 21.5 Spec motor--we can't realistically cut prices on our newest technology. In addition, we offer replacement wound stators, so the Balliatic motors can do double (or triple) duty. We still offer our new SS Pros through distribution, so these prices are somewhat higher than competitors' customer direct pricing.

A Novak customer with an old Velociti/SS Pro motor (no longer operational) can exchange it for a SS Pro 21.5 (see above). Our goal is to offer our entry-level products at affordable prices to encourage new participation in the hobby.

Thanks for the info on the prices.. I didn't know you guys sell directly, I was quoting the prices at the hobby shops

Just curious, what warranty comes with the RMF motors... I could refresh my arsenal for that price... if the class stays with a 21.5
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Old 12-23-2009, 10:54 AM   #7060
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Thanks for the info on the prices.. I didn't know you guys sell directly, I was quoting the prices at the hobby shops

Just curious, what warranty comes with the RMF motors... I could refresh my arsenal for that price... if the class stays with a 21.5
Our Shopatron store offers items that we sell thru distribution or mfg direct. The store orders for regular items are generally fulfilled by our network of LHS around the country; we ship mfg-direct items (generally discontinued products) and rmf products.

Our factory re-manufactured items carry the same 120 day warranty as our new items. They are subject to the same stringent QA tests and are re-built by the same staff that assemble our new items. We manufacture our products here in Irvine; so we can also rmf them here at the factory. This is why we can offer such comprehensive Service Options. We can easily include the SS Pro 25.5 motor option in our Replacement/Exchange program.
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Old 12-23-2009, 10:58 AM   #7061
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How much would an exchange stator program be?
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Old 12-23-2009, 11:07 AM   #7062
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I just went ahead and pressed "Place Order" on the Novak Shopatron for a 25.5 stator assembly. Hopefully it arrives in time for our Jan 2 test session and we'll spend some time wringing that bad boy out too.
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Old 12-23-2009, 11:11 AM   #7063
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I look forward to see what you find out.

Anyone got that link to the number decals you can buy?
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Last edited by Cain; 12-23-2009 at 11:34 AM.
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Old 12-23-2009, 11:45 AM   #7064
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How much would an exchange stator program be?
We consider the wound stator to be a service item and we do not offer an exchange option. Maybe we will see an aftermarket develop for used Ballistic stators....?
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Old 12-23-2009, 11:52 AM   #7065
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there already is, seen a few showing up for sale.
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