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Old 12-21-2009, 10:04 AM   #6961
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tried a variety of sensor wires that do work, as well as the original wire on another motor, no issues.

Trinity contacted me and stated that its probably the sensor board, and its a cheap fix ($5). they also said the board is the same as the Epic Duo 1 board, which I tried (got a board from another driver that I believe works) and it was still a no go.
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Old 12-21-2009, 10:29 AM   #6962
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Originally Posted by Scottrik View Post
Was this one of the 25.5 stators?



This is a complete NON-issue for several reasons. Not the least of these is that if EVERYBODY is running one it's a "fair" race--of course it looked slow if you were the only guy out there with a "small block" when everybody else had "big blocks". Or in the case of VTA (21.5) everybody had crate small blocks with 2-barrels and you pulled a plug wire loose.



RACERS that want to race the class will purchase whatever motor is required to run the class. IF this becomes the spec motor you can bet Novak will offer the motor as a complete motor rather than requiring one to purchase another wind and THEN purchase a stator. At the very least it would (is?) probably available directly through Novak as a complete assembly via their "Build a Ballistic" program.

And always keep in mind the BOTTOM bottom line--regardless if VTA decide to change spec or not, your program can do what's right for your group whether that's changing or not. But don't let a bunch of "can'ts" and "won'ts" or "don't like its" to dictate your thinking.
I agree with you on that,...and like Ive said before...whatever the USVTA rules are is what I will run and support....its just hard to get 40+ guys to go buy new stuff to fall under a "NEW" rule....just like the driver...I purchased 10 of them to give-a-way at a race just so ppl would have them...I personally like the way the stator worked...it was smooth and very drivable...but more testing to come and we will see...

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tried a variety of sensor wires that do work, as well as the original wire on another motor, no issues.

Trinity contacted me and stated that its probably the sensor board, and its a cheap fix ($5). they also said the board is the same as the Epic Duo 1 board, which I tried (got a board from another driver that I believe works) and it was still a no go.
I had this isssue as well once in my RCGT car and it turned out the motor just got to hot..put another one in and it did the same thing....change my profile on my esc, put in a fresh 17.5....and boom...ran like a charm...go figure...
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Old 12-21-2009, 04:15 PM   #6963
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I personally like the way the stator worked...it was smooth and very drivable...but more testing to come and we will see...
Again, is this the 25.5 stator you are testing?
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Old 12-21-2009, 07:03 PM   #6964
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Originally Posted by DARKSIDE View Post
.......

if this is something that goes into effect, most of our locals are not happy with the way it performed...it was very noticable slower on the straight(95ft), I even had to get outta the way for the GTB car..lol...on the flip side it had alot of punch on the in-field...and was very smooth all over...very easy to drive...it felt like that "diving experience" that VTA was based on...

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You that's kind of sad. I've never understood the hate for slower racing.

Years ago when I ran at The Track here in MD, RCDOC had a Thursday night F-1 class. I remember the purple hand out motors he had. I believe they were 40Turn. Slow, but the that speed combined with the open wheel racing made for the best racing I've ever had in RC.

Maybe Doc was just ahead of his time.

When I first heard of VTA it reminded me of the F-1 club. That combined with finding out about brushless and lipo, it was a no brainer- I didn't hesitate to drop some coin to get back in.

To me, it really does seem like this class is losing its original intent and direction.
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Old 12-21-2009, 07:57 PM   #6965
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yeah seems like rules are being made up as we race.....

next thing is... we will also regulate who can RUN this class...
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Old 12-21-2009, 07:59 PM   #6966
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Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
You that's kind of sad. I've never understood the hate for slower racing.

Years ago when I ran at The Track here in MD, RCDOC had a Thursday night F-1 class. I remember the purple hand out motors he had. I believe they were 40Turn. Slow, but the that speed combined with the open wheel racing made for the best racing I've ever had in RC.

Maybe Doc was just ahead of his time.

When I first heard of VTA it reminded me of the F-1 club. That combined with finding out about brushless and lipo, it was a no brainer- I didn't hesitate to drop some coin to get back in.

To me, it really does seem like this class is losing its original intent and direction.
do we really want to race that slow??? cmon man.... that was years ago.
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Old 12-21-2009, 08:03 PM   #6967
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That's what starter/even classes are for, like the Senior Spec class at the Coliseum in Maryland. Hand out motors and minimal hopups allowed.
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Old 12-21-2009, 08:29 PM   #6968
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Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
You that's kind of sad. I've never understood the hate for slower racing.
its because of all the damn magazines and their "top XX hop-ups you need to go faster" or the "YOU NEED THESE blah blah"

plus everyone today thinks that being the fastest car on the track means better racing - while they miss that door-to-door IS and ALWAY will be the best kind of racing...

its a shame...

i do agree the VTA rules appear to being made up as things go along...but then again, that's what happens to spec class - anyone remember how the 'legends' class started? and how they were run the last time most of us ever touched one?? 180* difference from where the class started...
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Old 12-21-2009, 08:41 PM   #6969
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We still race door to door, the vast majority of us are running the hardware to do so...
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Old 12-21-2009, 08:51 PM   #6970
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+1 on that....
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Old 12-21-2009, 09:27 PM   #6971
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottrik View Post
Again, is this the 25.5 stator you are testing?
yes

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
You that's kind of sad. I've never understood the hate for slower racing.

Years ago when I ran at The Track here in MD, RCDOC had a Thursday night F-1 class. I remember the purple hand out motors he had. I believe they were 40Turn. Slow, but the that speed combined with the open wheel racing made for the best racing I've ever had in RC.

Maybe Doc was just ahead of his time.

When I first heard of VTA it reminded me of the F-1 club. That combined with finding out about brushless and lipo, it was a no brainer- I didn't hesitate to drop some coin to get back in.

To me, it really does seem like this class is losing its original intent and direction.
not sure what you are saying with that....

I think the class should be slowed down....but we all have to remember what some of us can afford, doesnt mean everyone can...and I sure Rob and the USVTA take that into thought before changing any rules and such....I dont see ppl buying anything that may change later cause of technology....we have to come with something that will make the class stronger and more popular among National Races.....cause you can change whatever locally...

we are on the right track with the slow down of the cars, and those that think different may need to run RCGT or TC....we just have to work on it locally and then bring our results to the "powers that be" and let them look into what will work for everybody....they might take a different idea from several places and come with one solution...who knows, but I believe the VTA class is strong enough to handle whatever comes its way....

I like the idea of whats going down at the Novak Race in Jan...no boost and 5.2 FDR,....Im going to give that a try as well to see where Im at compared to my normal 4.2 pro 6....might just run my GTB car and not worry with it..lol
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Old 12-21-2009, 09:37 PM   #6972
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trerc View Post
We still race door to door, the vast majority of us are running the hardware to do so...
Im not sure what esc's you guys are running, but most of our races are very door-to-door..as such....


Rick Hess 1 6 21 5:02.867
Jason Graham 2 4 21 5:06.670
Brandon Black 3 7 21 5:13.008
Maynard McCulley 4 2 21 5:15.379
Myron Kinnard 5 3 20 5:00.770
Tim Moore 6 1 20 5:04.
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Old 12-21-2009, 09:56 PM   #6973
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DARKSIDE View Post
Im not sure what esc's you guys are running, but most of our races are very door-to-door..as such....


Rick Hess 1 6 21 5:02.867
Jason Graham 2 4 21 5:06.670
Brandon Black 3 7 21 5:13.008
Maynard McCulley 4 2 21 5:15.379
Myron Kinnard 5 3 20 5:00.770
Tim Moore 6 1 20 5:04.
the only REMOTELY "close" race you're showing with those results is between 3 and 4 place and they were STILL 2+ seconds apart at the finish. That's a LONG way from "door-to-door" the way I view "door-to-door". The others are spread out by gaps of 4-6 seconds. The only "door-to-door" action your seeing is as backmarkers are lapped, and that doesn't count. Now if your finish had the top 3-4 cars (or more) in that first 4 second gap...THAT'S door-to-door racing.

I'm with you (VERY with you) on the need to slow the class back down to where it was intended. By your results it looks like the 25.5 may be the way (though it still doesn't get 'em back to where they were) to do it. That way budget-conscious folks can buy a Ballistic 17.5 (or whatever) and buy a 25.5 stator assembly (or vice-versa) and all they're really "invested" in the new spec is a $40 stator. And the simple fact is that if you can't invest $40 (as long as there's PLENTY of warning before the change) you are in the WRONG hobby. I would also point out that by your own admission earlier NONE of these racers in your group but maybe 2 can poor-mouth ("I can't afford that motor..." because you indicate they've all ponied up for "juiced" esc's.

That said, it STILL doesn't look like the 25.5 is even slow enough with the 2s. I will get more chance to test Jan 2 and will run the heck out of a 1s / 17.5 combo. The 1s / 13.5 was such a small amount slower than the current spec that it's really a non-starter, sounds like the 25.5 is closer to where we want to get. I'll see if I can provide some hard numbers for the 1s / 17.5.
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Old 12-21-2009, 10:01 PM   #6974
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What I've missed about VTA lately is the door to door action. When the class was new (and I raced in the first VTA race at Trackside....one of the first VTA races that I know of) the straight line speed was limited by what you could do with a 27t and a 4 cell. We could run 2 or 3 different lines on the track and race side by side for a whole race....now that was awesome racing. I hate to say it but right now the speeds have gotten too fast. The set up on the car has to be absolutely perfect and we are definitely maxing out the limits of the bodies and tires. That leads to more seperation among the top tier drivers/set ups and the guys that can drive well but don't completely understand the cars suspension and may be off a bit. That leads to frustration among the racers. It has turned into single lines around the track and to the point of if you even tap someone they spin out or are into a board. I feel if the cars are slowed back down a touch the racing fields will tighten back up and the "door to door" competion will be back. I guess the way I look at it is that anyone can go out and buy a really fast car and race it, and that's fine.......I prefer where everyone is equal and you really have to get up on the wheel and plan out your passes 2 laps ahead of time .... maybe giving someone a little door or fender to get by. No harm done and no putting into the wall.....just a good battle. It's not so much about "speed", it's about close competition.

We'll see how the VTA "Novak Race" rules work out. For those that don't know we're running 5.2 max FDR, no one ways allowed, and no "turbo" advance allowed - all other USVTA rules apply (except interiors). We've done quite a bit of testing with the FDR and it seems to work well, and the no one way/turbo rule has worked well locally and in the Hurricane All Star Series.

-John-
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Last edited by Racer X79; 12-21-2009 at 11:21 PM.
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Old 12-21-2009, 10:17 PM   #6975
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Again, this will all be addressed soon. I'm waiting to hear about a couple things, but I'm shooting to have something together before Jan. 1.


And yes, I am making this up as I go along
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