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Old 11-27-2009, 06:07 AM   #6826
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Originally Posted by or8ital View Post
Slash seems to be doing fine as a spec class. So maybe it was b/c it was Trinity.
There's your spec class, have fun! Even in that class it's always the seasoned racers who choose to run the class that win. My point is is that you can spec esc but the same guys will still win the races because they will always be fast because they can drive and set up a car so just enjoy the class for it's original intent and just have fun.
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Old 11-27-2009, 08:23 AM   #6827
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For those talking about changing this class to spec in all the ways, I remember that Trinity came out with a spec rtr kit years ago, and look where is now...nowhere

Just something to think about... This class would loose a lot of racers if it gets a really spec class... (my thoughts only)
That's what I think many arguing against are missing. VTA could easy just say no adjustable time escs period, not SPEC one model.

According to others in the post, both Tekin and Novak have implied they'd be willing to make a non adjustable ESC for Spec style classes.

You can also use any older ones.


Anyway, I'll keep racing the class, but honestly believe that in a few years it will be dead. It's heading the same direction as many other TC classes.
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Old 11-27-2009, 08:37 AM   #6828
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Anyway, I'll keep racing the class, but honestly believe that in a few years it will be dead. It's heading the same direction as many other TC classes.
Those are my thoughts. Everything has a certain shelve life before it needs to be reinvented. VTA is the only TC class we have in Ft Wayne right now. I personally would would prefer a little more rubber/TC type class (aka TC bodies, any speedo you want), but VTA is my only choice right now. It's really sad to see it turning into a bitchfest this season.

I would like to see a 21.5 rubber tire class evolve out of VTA. Everyone will have all the stuff, so maybe it'll happen. A 25.5 (fixed gear) Formula 10 class looks fun too, but that's another topic for another day.
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Old 11-27-2009, 09:32 AM   #6829
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There's your spec class, have fun! Even in that class it's always the seasoned racers who choose to run the class that win. My point is is that you can spec esc but the same guys will still win the races because they will always be fast because they can drive and set up a car so just enjoy the class for it's original intent and just have fun.
We ran a Slash class on-road to get new racers in the hobby at our outdoor track. Im a seasoned racer and ran in it to keep the entries up at first to get the class launched. It is definitely a lot closer than VTA. People I was beating by several laps in VTA were able to beat me in Slash. So spec can work. Slash has everything people have been talking about in this thread. They are slow, they are cheap, they don't have good traction, etc, etc.

It seems to me the VTA racers are split on the topic. Half want spec and half want a slightly slower TC class.
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Old 11-27-2009, 09:41 AM   #6830
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Yeah but even Slash/SC is starting to have tire issues.
Only if a track lets it have tire problems. Stock and mod CORR is huge around here, as is offroad in general. Most of the tracks around here got together before the indoor season started and set common rules for the CORR classes, including not allowing pin type tires (Goosebumps and Calibers) in either class. Have to run treaded CORR style tires and wheels. No 1/8th wheel adapters and tires either.

But, that's another discussion and doesn't really help VTA.
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Old 11-27-2009, 10:27 AM   #6831
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VTA is VTA.....it isnt a slow TC class..or a Slash/Corr knock off......but its by far the most popular class at the numerous tracks I have attended this past year.....we have the best on-road class...we have issues that over time will work themselves out....I believe that running the rules the way they are you will see better drivers and turn-outs over the winter season.....if you have guys running non adv esc's......say one or two...they will...just like when it came to the 21.5/lipo option.....go back in this thread and see the same stuff about the 21.5/lipo being to fast for the others to keep up....now a year later almost everyone is running 21.5/lipo....so whats the point of spec this and that....if everyone is going to upgrade anyway......

better example.....when we (Nashville) started running VTA we ran just 17.5 or 27t with lipos....no fdr or limits...it wasnt cause we didnt want to use the USVTA rules...but it was what most of us had to get into the class...granted the rules did say stock and 6 cell...but after seeing the "different" driving experience...we started to change it up....so here a year later...almost if not all our top racers are using the USVTA rules...we still have some ppl using the 17.5/lipo FDR option( it works great)....but thats normally cause they are coming from TC...or thats just what they already had...

the point in this is to watch ppl make up their own mind...we will lose some racers, just like we did when the 21.5/lipo option came about...but we gain so many more....the same can be said...yes keeping the rules like they are we will lose some racers...but we are subject to gain as well...like guys that cant really hang with big budget TC, will come over to TA.

also for you guys willing to walk out of VTA cause of some changes one way or another...you and your NEGATIVE ATTITUDE will hurt this class more than any rule change ever will....so anybody that feels the need to type like that, shouldnt be on this thread...most of us on here are doing all we can locally and nationally to keep this class on top and growing...so if you really feel like any rule change is going to "hurt" the class, cause it will never DIE, you should keep it to yourself....or better yet...retire from r/c racing all together. Cause its ppl like you that spoil it for the whole group...and we are a big group...

run what you have and LETS JUST RACE!!!!!!

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Old 11-27-2009, 11:28 AM   #6832
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There's nothing wrong about having an opinion. Obviously there's a right and a wrong way to express it. I'm sure that majority of us "slightly turned off" types will continue to run the class without much complaint. For a lot of us it's all we have in the forms of TC racing.

It's like I'm sitting in the church of VTA. Any questions or complaints will not be tolerated and you'll quickly be condemned to hell for all eternity. Nobody is pulling the pin on this thing, let's just race and get on with it.
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Old 11-27-2009, 12:32 PM   #6833
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Originally Posted by DARKSIDE View Post
VTA is VTA.....it isnt a slow TC class..or a Slash/Corr knock off......but its by far the most popular class at the numerous tracks I have attended this past year.....we have the best on-road class...we have issues that over time will work themselves out....I believe that running the rules the way they are you will see better drivers and turn-outs over the winter season.....if you have guys running non adv esc's......say one or two...they will...just like when it came to the 21.5/lipo option.....go back in this thread and see the same stuff about the 21.5/lipo being to fast for the others to keep up....now a year later almost everyone is running 21.5/lipo....so whats the point of spec this and that....if everyone is going to upgrade anyway......

better example.....when we (Nashville) started running VTA we ran just 17.5 or 27t with lipos....no fdr or limits...it wasnt cause we didnt want to use the USVTA rules...but it was what most of us had to get into the class...granted the rules did say stock and 6 cell...but after seeing the "different" driving experience...we started to change it up....so here a year later...almost if not all our top racers are using the USVTA rules...we still have some ppl using the 17.5/lipo FDR option( it works great)....but thats normally cause they are coming from TC...or thats just what they already had...

the point in this is to watch ppl make up their own mind...we will lose some racers, just like we did when the 21.5/lipo option came about...but we gain so many more....the same can be said...yes keeping the rules like they are we will lose some racers...but we are subject to gain as well...like guys that cant really hang with big budget TC, will come over to TA.

also for you guys willing to walk out of VTA cause of some changes one way or another...you and your NEGATIVE ATTITUDE will hurt this class more than any rule change ever will....so anybody that feels the need to type like that, shouldnt be on this thread...most of us on here are doing all we can locally and nationally to keep this class on top and growing...so if you really feel like any rule change is going to "hurt" the class, cause it will never DIE, you should keep it to yourself....or better yet...retire from r/c racing all together. Cause its ppl like you that spoil it for the whole group...and we are a big group...

run what you have and LETS JUST RACE!!!!!!

IM BATTMAN
I personally disagree with compareing ESCs with 21.5/Lipo.

VTA was a large part of why I started back into racing, but the 2nd, if not most important reason was Lipo/Brushless. When I learned about and saw I wouldn't need all the BS motor magic and tools of the past I was sold.

Will I upgrade to a new ESC, nope I'll drop VTA before that happens. I'm back and enjoying it, if it becomes just another money pit class, I have no need. I can buy an entire Senior Spec set up for less than the new ESC.

Slash is popular for the exact reasons mentioned above. Average Joe with a decent set up and driving actually has a shot at winning.

Wasn't a year or two ago that 2 of the top 3 at a large VTA race won using TA05s?
With all the new blood coming in wanting to run all top end gear, I doubt will see that happen again. To me VTA is losing it's spirit. You can disagree, but this is how I see it.

Time will tell. But on road needs an affordable, slower class. VTA was sold as that, but is quickly moving away from it.
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Old 11-27-2009, 12:59 PM   #6834
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You have to ask why is there so much complaining this year?It's because of the NEW SPEED CONTROL"s when it was equal everyone was happy now look!Why not stay with what made class BIG and that was NON ADJUSTABLE SPEEDO"S!THE CLASS WAS SPEC BEFORE THE NEW SPEED CONTROL"S!
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Old 11-27-2009, 01:06 PM   #6835
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Originally Posted by DARKSIDE View Post
VTA is VTA.....it isnt a slow TC class..
But THAT'S what all the Johnny-come-lately's miss...the ORIGINAL intent of VTA was, first and foremost, to create a slower class than "Stock" TC. Noticeably slower so that it was a distinctive driving experience. The SUREST way to kill VTA is to follow the path it's on which gets closer and closer to Stock Rubber TC lap times. If it's no longer a unique driving experience it has no other reason for being and gets relegated to the already bulging pile of "novelty classes" that have emerged and died.

The other primary intent was low cost. We'd originally intented the class for obsolete chassis that everybody had one or two of in their basements. We "gave" on this matter mostly because at the significantly lower speeds of the class the chassis, even the older ones, weren't being pushed hard enough that the advantages of the new chassis could take hold. We also started with the minimum weight high enough that even "tubby" cars were competitive...in fact I'd go so far as to say that "shafties" had an advantage putting what little power there was down to the track. In these original couple years of the class the only advantage the newer chassis held over the older ones was really the ease with which tuning changes can be made to the newer cars.

Unfortunately as the speeds have risen in the class the advantage of the newer chassis becomes more and more apparent. This is exacerbated by the reduction in minimum weight which will (likely) be an ongoing trend.

But to the original point...VTA WAS, in fact, created to be a slower TC class.
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Old 11-27-2009, 01:13 PM   #6836
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Ok..I can see some point of all this..who realy want's to race slower cars, Well im just as guilty but why did most of you (and me) go out and buy the newer speedos? because they make you faster and partly because we go over by the sedan racers and what are they running? Tekin RS, Speed Passion GT2.0 <-(guilty) LRP. when I started in VTA I bought the Havoc package and I had it quickly beat into my head that I needed someting better. Im sure I could of spent $150 somwere else but I wanted to be as fas or faster then everyone else. Now if it went Spec regardless how it was done I would comply with no problem because the class is being put back to were it belonged in the first place. so in a way is VTA just like a Sedan class? yup because were did we get some of the ideas to run the high end electronics.. from the high end racers
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Old 11-27-2009, 02:06 PM   #6837
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Wasn't a year or two ago that 2 of the top 3 at a large VTA race won using TA05s?
With all the new blood coming in wanting to run all top end gear, I doubt will see that happen again.
I haven't seen any reason that it still couldn't be like that.

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This is exacerbated by the reduction in minimum weight which will (likely) be an ongoing trend.
Who's reducing the min weight besides roar for touring car?

I'm all for slowing things down. Yes I'm running a timing advacne speedo, and the place I run VTA in the summer we are planning on turning off the turbo boost and speedo timing for our races. If I go somewhere where they allow it, then I'll re-engage it.
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Old 11-27-2009, 02:14 PM   #6838
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Would be interesting to know if those saying everything is fine with the rules are running on smaller carpet tracks. I would guess things are a lot closer on such a track. Its the large outdoor tracks where you see the big difference between equipment.
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Old 11-27-2009, 02:15 PM   #6839
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Who's reducing the min weight besides roar for touring car?
Was originally 1525g which WAS the TC Rubber weight with 6 round cells where the VTA cars ran 4 cells at the same weight. Then it dropped to 1450g which I believe was the first drop for TC Rubber. Now they've dropped further yet and I won't be surprised to see VTA follow.
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Old 11-27-2009, 04:31 PM   #6840
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guys Im cool with whatever...Im just saying that alot of change right now is a bit much for most of the racers as a whole...and if Im looking out for my club locally...it will really hurt our class due to so many newbies we have running adv esc's...I dont see us going to a spec esc...changing the FDR is the most practical way for ppl with boost or adv timming...its just as easy to tech....no different than 4.2 FDR...or even turning it off and picking the car up with the throttle wide open to see/hear the tires..lol...

you want that driving experience that made the class.....slow them down, but dont ask to buy more new stuff, that might change again in a year...

IMO...put a cap on the rules now....so ppl that are joining now under this banner of rules dont get burnt.....exp

esc allowed 2009

LRP SPX or lower
Tekin RS Pro or lower
Novak Kenitic or lower
KoPropo v.2 ? or lower
Speedpassion ADV ESC? or lower...

this way if something comes out next summer it wont have any play on the class....even if we eliminate these esc and put in Havoks,GTB,Spheres ect...we need to put a cap on it so ppl have a limited set of esc's to choose from.....

but remember this post and I know Rob said it wont come to this...but once this is ironed out with the esc's...somebody will have a problem with this racer using the $150 servo...or the lastest radio to hit the market thats so fast...

anybody disagree...who now is running $75 or higher servos in VTA...or are any of you running the newer Spectrum or Fasst system radios....I know alot are and saying because" I race other classes" isnt going to cut it....come on show of hands...?????




Rob and USVTA you guys got your work cut out for ya...hope it decided before the Nats.....or before clubs start on their summer schedules....

I have everything to run whatever or even buy a spec esc...Im looking out for the masses.....
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