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Old 11-25-2009, 11:23 AM   #6781
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hey guys lets get some new bodies.....all this speedo talk is circles....there is no easy way to slow them down other than ppl that have adv esc run a higher fdr...or seperate the class...or if the USVTA makes a merger with RCGT and then we have an offical pro class...

but for now lets just run the rules that have been tested and REALLY work for the class as a whole....its lasted longer than most would have thought...this is my 3rd season running VTA and Im still having a blast ......lets give Rob and the USVTA a little break and lets just race..win lose or draw...and have some FUN!!!!

I saw that we have 13 VTA cars at the US Champs....where are you Ohio VTA members at?....btw...what tech are you guys running?
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Old 11-25-2009, 11:29 AM   #6782
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I`m interested in more bodies , maybe an AMC Javelin ?

Maybe someone of stature should contact HPI and discuss making more bodies?
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Old 11-25-2009, 11:52 AM   #6783
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Default THUNDER TRANS-AM SERIES

ROUND 3 THUNDER TRANS-AM SERIES

THE 750 CHRISTMAS TRANS-AM ENDURO

SUNDAY DECEMBER 27, 2009 @ THUNDER RC RACEWAY IN NASHVILLE,TN

TROPHIES AND PRIZES AND 750 LAPS OF NON-STOP TRANS-AM RACING

500 LAPS TO START, WITH AN HOUR BREAK TO FINISH THE LAST 250

3 MAN TEAMS..MARSHALL,DRIVE,PIT

EVERY TEAM MEMBER CAN USE THEIR OWN CAR OR SAME CAR

EACH MEMBER WILL NEED TO PUT IN AT LEAST 30 MIN DRIVE TIME

NEW TIRES ARE ENCOURAGED, THREAD PATTERN MUST BE VISIBLE AT THE START OF THE RACE

LAPS WILL BE ADDED UP FOR EACH TEAM TO DETERMINE THE WINNERS

YOU CAN WORK ON YOUR CAR(TEAM CARS) AS LONG AS ONE OF YOUR TEAM MEMBERS ARE MARSHALLING

ALL CARS WILL BE TECH DURING THE RACE

ONLY A TECH CAN PUT YOUR CAR ON THE TRACK

ALL TEAM MEMBERS MUST PIT TOGETHER

ALL TEAM MEMBERS MUST RUN SIMILAR PAINT SCHEMES AND SAME BODIES WITH NUMBERS

USVTA AND TMPL RULES APPLY

http://www.usvintagetransam.com/

http://coolspringsracing.com/Home_Page.html

YOUR TEAM MAY RUN EITHER SET OF RULES

IF YOU RUN 17.5 TC, THERE IS A 17.5/LIPO OPTION TO RUN VTA

TWO QUALIFYING ROUND FOR DRIVERSTAND AND PITLANE POSITION, STARTING AT NOON

TROPHIES FOR TOP 3 TEAMS AS WELL AS CONCOURSE WINNERS

ENTRY FEE WILL BE ONLY $30 PER TEAM

GOTO THUNDER.RC50.COM FOR MORE INFO

PM ME YOUR TEAM NAME AND MEMBERS

BRING A CHAIR/STOOL

DRINKS AND CHIPS AVAILABLE AT THE TRACK

DOOR PRIZES WILL BE GIVEN OUT DURING THE BREAK AS WELL AS CONCOURSE

SPONSORS KRC
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Old 11-25-2009, 12:14 PM   #6784
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I have just returned to this hobby after a few years away and the class that sparked my interest to return is the VTA class. I have been involved in RC racing as a racer and shop/track owner for over 18 years and have watched the SPEC classes come and go. What seems to me as a selling point for VTA is that you don't have to buy a specific brand of car, specific ESC, SPEC battery or a motor that is out of date or useless for another class!
What we do get to use is a proven chassis type that has been around for 15 years with pleanty of options and manuf. suport, a battery and ESC that is able to be used in multiple types of classes and a motor that with a change of the wind for about $35 can also be used in other classes. Now what does that give us, diversity, resale/ upgrade abbility and the option for racers to stay involved in the hobby by moving to other classes when they want to try something else (and then realize how much fun the VTA class is and come back).
The solution to the ESC/ Speed problem is not specing the ESC or going to a 1 cell lipo, the current set of rules are working just fine. The key to this class is set-up (due to the spec tires) and smooth consistent lines (due to the low power 21.5 motor). The solution is much simpler and has been stated already on this forum. Two classes! We need a sportsman and expert division and set a bump up or maximum number of lap rule for the sportsman class to allow the natural progression of the new racer. Also, the local so called "expert" racers need to take the time to work with the sportsman drivers as to kind of mentor and help them with the learning curve.
This is what's needed to insure the growth and longtivite of the class. This will serve to strengthen the class and allow the new racers to see there is more to being fast than the latest and greatest ESC. Call this your tracks racer development program, trust me when the guy you helped is finally making it around the tarck with a properly set up car and improving week on end he will continue to race and tell others. Making everyone go out and buy a SPEC ESC or Brushed motor or 1 cell Lipo will do nothing for growing the class, I can promise you this it will push people out of the class! It is up to the racers to keep people involved, make it fun and not so serious and be transparent with the new racers and by all means make them feel welcomed by helping them improve from week to week.
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Old 11-25-2009, 12:21 PM   #6785
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thats the ticket.....
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Old 11-25-2009, 12:27 PM   #6786
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Keiths got the VTA bug....LOL
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Old 11-25-2009, 12:39 PM   #6787
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What's wrong in VTA is the fact that we're allowing rules to be dictated by people who ARE UNWILLING TO MAKE AN INVESTMENT IN THE CLASS. Never mind what may be "right" for the class, if I don't already own it or can't use it in three other classes that I can't make up my mind if I want to race in or not then by god it just can't be.

No worries, same BS happens in 1/12...basically the same TC racers who are terrified they won't be able to use EVERY BIT OF THEIR GEAR for both classes.

Then the TRULY amazing thing is these same sheep line up at the gate, wads of money in hand, every time Xray or whoever rolls out a new chassis. Of note...a chassis that isn't required to fit the rule structure for any other classes.

RC is the ONLY form of racing I've seen (and I've been actively involved in many forms) where equipment changes, etc are predicated on what racers already have in their tool boxes. You NEVER see that in any "real" racing. Nor is any class out there hamstrung by racers whining "but I can't use that engine in my wife's minivan".

Honest to christ, what a bunch. I guess I've gotten to the point where my thinking is that if a $150 esc and motor (street price for a Havoc + 21.5 combo...and only $130 with Tower's perpetual $20 off code) is too much for someone to POSSIBLY irretreivably spend (and what a limited way to think about anything) to enjoy a class as great as VTA COULD be (again) then it's been great knowing ya. Have fun in whatever class you choose to spend your way in to.
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Last edited by Scottrik; 11-25-2009 at 12:57 PM.
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Old 11-25-2009, 12:52 PM   #6788
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I too have also been involved for over 30 years in other forms of motorsports. Go-karts, Legends, IMCA Modifieds. Late Models both dirt and asphalt and have seen first hand how rule changes to so called "SPEC" classes has destroyed the car count.

We need the new racers to get involved, but we also want to draw the current racer (who has a SPX, Tekin, etc. and a 2c Lipo in their tool box) to come out and try VTA and see how much fun it is. They will then convince the other offroad or sedan racers to give it a try and before long your having 30+ VTA racers regularly.
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Old 11-25-2009, 01:05 PM   #6789
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The change to the "spec" ALREADY HAPPENED...before you were around VTA. Some well-intentioned folks got a bug WAY up their asses and shoved an ill-conceived LiPo / brushless spec down our throats that SUPPOSEDLY had parity with the existing spec. The plain fact is that it never (EVER) did have any sort of parity. Their "testing" was, apparently, done on a track with a 37 mile long straightaway so the FDR slowed the LiPo / 21.5 cars enough that the existing 4-cell cars (17.5 or 27T) could keep up. On real-world tracks, and certainly anything indoors this "parity" was a freakin' joke to anyone who saw them run. And this was before anyone was running "juiced" esc's. My own belief is that they desperately WANTED to see parity so that's what they think they saw.

The TRULY funny sad thing is that 1s LiPos became a reality within less than six months of the change to 2s / 21.5 being adopted. In fairness the guys who "tested" and adopted couldn't really have known this was coming with any sort of certainty, but if they hadn't been in such an all-fired hurry a LOT of this could have been avoided.

I'm certainly not advocating that the Havoc be the be-all and end-all esc, but I wouldn't mind seeing a rule created for next year that says only esc's with non-adjustable timing, etc, are allowed. I think pretty much everybody can find those fairly cheaply if they don't already have one (or four). Havocs, GTB's, the earlier LRP's and Tekins, etc.

The plain fact is that even without the "juiced" esc's VTA has gotten FAR too fast for it's original intent. Once again there isn't a class with a LIMITED speed that encourages newbies yet still challenges old hands with closer racing that only SLOOOOOW speeds can provide.
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Old 11-25-2009, 01:15 PM   #6790
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Nice new log for the fire.

Novak Build a Ballistic

Can get a 25.5 Stator

Or, get ceramic bearings

Or, a 13 or 14 mm tuning rotor

For your 21.5 wind.

New teching nightmare ensues...
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Old 11-25-2009, 01:19 PM   #6791
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Talking

As for myself, I am trilled with the Lipo/ brushless 21.5 combination. It is very low maintenance and allows me to concentrate on chassis set-up and practice. I only need one battery and one motor (and I don't pull either out of than car the whole night!)

Now keep in mind I have been away from the hobby for sometime and back then to be competitive you needed a dyno, motor lathe, battery zapper, 8+ packs of batteries and you were constantly going through brushes, springs, and buying motors to get the last drop of power out of the car.

It seems to me the learning curve for the new racer is less than ever and the cost to compete at the top level of this class is a whole lot less.

Maybe I'm missing something. I guess we could spec a Radio Shack Turbo Hopper, but I'm sure some will be faster than others, but I'm sure the driver will have nothing to do with it.
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Old 11-25-2009, 01:19 PM   #6792
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottrik View Post
The change to the "spec" ALREADY HAPPENED...before you were around VTA. Some well-intentioned folks got a bug WAY up their asses and shoved an ill-conceived LiPo / brushless spec down our throats that SUPPOSEDLY had parity with the existing spec. The plain fact is that it never (EVER) did have any sort of parity. Their "testing" was, apparently, done on a track with a 37 mile long straightaway so the FDR slowed the LiPo / 21.5 cars enough that the existing 4-cell cars (17.5 or 27T) could keep up. On real-world tracks, and certainly anything indoors this "parity" was a freakin' joke to anyone who saw them run. And this was before anyone was running "juiced" esc's. My own belief is that they desperately WANTED to see parity so that's what they think they saw.

The TRULY funny sad thing is that 1s LiPos became a reality within less than six months of the change to 2s / 21.5 being adopted. In fairness the guys who "tested" and adopted couldn't really have known this was coming with any sort of certainty, but if they hadn't been in such an all-fired hurry a LOT of this could have been avoided.

I'm certainly not advocating that the Havoc be the be-all and end-all esc, but I wouldn't mind seeing a rule created for next year that says only esc's with non-adjustable timing, etc, are allowed. I think pretty much everybody can find those fairly cheaply if they don't already have one (or four). Havocs, GTB's, the earlier LRP's and Tekins, etc.

The plain fact is that even without the "juiced" esc's VTA has gotten FAR too fast for it's original intent. Once again there isn't a class with a LIMITED speed that encourages newbies yet still challenges old hands with closer racing that only SLOOOOOW speeds can provide.
Have you ever heard the saying The road to hell is paved with good intentions[COLOR="red"]Ill keep racing till I get sick of things getting out of hand because next year some new ESC or more powerfull lipo will come out and you know it will and it will be who has the bottomless pockets and get the "Electronic advantage" and we will be here again. Kart racing has been sounding more and more fun all the time
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Old 11-25-2009, 01:24 PM   #6793
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Trust me Kart racing is just as bad and more expensive! I did that for 15 years gwowing up and can remember having $7000 worthof tires and wheels on the trailer wall and that was back in the early 90's.
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Old 11-25-2009, 02:48 PM   #6794
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K.Kincaid View Post
Trust me Kart racing is just as bad and more expensive! I did that for 15 years gwowing up and can remember having $7000 worthof tires and wheels on the trailer wall and that was back in the early 90's.
I believe it I know how much a Kart alone can cost and depending on what class you wana run will it be Gas,Alchol,or Methanol the higher the class the more $$ Parts,Tires,Clutches,Brakes. atleast 1 extra RTR motor. Ive worked at race tracks. I did tech for GL Dragway for 2 years so im not fooled into thinking any thing is cheap. I sure don't plan on adding up any of the reciepts I collected from this racing any time soon the wife would have my Ass and Balls if she seen the numbers
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Old 11-25-2009, 04:32 PM   #6795
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I love this thread...YUMMY!!!!

why dont we wait awhile and see what the r/c industry does in the next 6 months...I think by that time 90% of all VTA racers will be running 21.5/lipo w/ newer esc's....if not already running....

something to really think about...we need to just start racing and supporting the "BIG" races....cause before long it will be something else to get ppl all bent about...like the

HPI Camaro...we should outlaw that body cause so many ppl use it...
Robinson Pinion Gears....they are light-weight
Paragon/Ragu Mix....cause it gives me an advantage over other racers...
Belt drive chassis....to smooth for VTA
ect...
ect...
ect...

the buck should stop here....this class is a great class just the way it is....no need for change...if you are getting you tail handed to you by your local fast guy...and he is running adv esc, and nobody else is...ask him to turn it OFF!..

when I built my TC5r/SPX/21.5/SMC 4000/28c/Futaba 9551 car...my race director told/asked me not to run that car against the locals cause of the speeds it was producing, plus my "great" driving....I said no problem...and we continued to race and have fun....now 8 months later almost all the guys that would be in the "A" "PRO" class/division are running SPX/Tekins/KO's... without any arguement among the 40+ racers here....

you have to see that if it aint the ESC's it will be something else...lets just run what we have and stay within the rules and have some FUN!!!!
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