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Old 11-24-2009, 05:51 PM   #6751
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Spec Novak Havoc esc....Done.
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Old 11-24-2009, 05:53 PM   #6752
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Originally Posted by or8ital View Post
IMO, the easiest way would be to go to a spec brushed motor. Its little investment, it removes turbo / advanced ESC programming, and nearly everyone has a ESC that can run it. If you continue to spec the FDR you could keep it in a range where people wouldn't have to change brushes often. People will still do voodoo tricks on the motor but I don't think the gap in performance would be as big as it is today. Brushed motors kinda suck but I think they could work in this situation.
NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!....Go back to brush motors?...this shouldnt even be an option....the USVTA has bought more Novak 21.5 motors than the law should allow...we are probably the "IT" class for Novak and the 21.5...(OVAL maybe)...you are talking about a nation of VTA racers that run 21.5 with a very, very , very small few running anything close to to other 2 options....who locally, regionally, or nationally are running 27t or 17.5 4 cell...??????...Ive gone all across the southeast region as well as the USVTA Nats and I dont see alot of motor truers or dis-charge trays for 4 cell....

lets help each other out here, cause like I said, Im willing to do anything for this class....Ive got several cars with different combo or options that are USVTA and TMPL legal....

the problem needs to be fixed at your local track...the more I think of it, Rob and the USVTA dont need to change a thing...cause when its time for national races....you will see a vast amount of different skill levels that have ABSOLUTLY NOTHING to do with esc',chassis,motors or anything else...you will see the best drivers and setups come to the top...PERIOD!

lets make it easy...rather you like the rules or not...this is a fun class that requires all 3 major ends...driving, setup, and tech....the class has and will continue to get a little faster...but so has every other class in r/c... thats just the nature of the sport/hobby.....

maybe since we have been so GOOOOOD to Novak...the can go a little step forward for our ESC...make us a esc w/ boost at about $100....maybe get with AE or Losi and make us a RTR USVTA car that is legal out the box...(HPI dropped the ball)......jmo...but most of our locals have the right tools to mix it up...rather we run separate divisions like pro and rookie or we run gentlemen rules...the VTA class is for everyone and still the best class for on-road
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Old 11-24-2009, 06:03 PM   #6753
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The spec ESC is not a bad idea. It's just more expensive. I just know one of the core values or VTA was to keep it inexpensive. The havoc/ballistic combo is only $165 as is so cheaper than the $100 you suggested.
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Old 11-24-2009, 06:09 PM   #6754
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how many of your local-loyal VTA racers running older tech....compared to those running newer tech....
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Old 11-24-2009, 06:28 PM   #6755
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how many of your local-loyal VTA racers running older tech....compared to those running newer tech....
the bottom 5 guys are running the old tech. the middle 7-8 were running cheap BL stuff like the GTB and havoc, the top 7-8 were running LRP, Tekin
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Old 11-24-2009, 06:42 PM   #6756
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At this point, things cannot go back to brushed. Most of you would not be racing TA if it was still 4 cell/27t. Everything took off when it went 21.5 lipo. Unfortunately, it kept going

We just need a way to slow things down. We're gonna work hard to do the right thing.
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Old 11-24-2009, 06:54 PM   #6757
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Originally Posted by or8ital View Post
the bottom 5 guys are running the old tech. the middle 7-8 were running cheap BL stuff like the GTB and havoc, the top 7-8 were running LRP, Tekin
I see 3 different divisions of TA

Pro VTA
Sportsman TA
Rookie TA

that simple...if someone wants to move up...just like in any other class, you need to upgrade....exp..if you was running 17.5 tc...to keep up with the pack a GTB aint going to cut it...to run with the TC class you will need an adv esc...

if you put them in separate Div. you wont see any whining about tech...if the guys im running with in Sportsman are all running GTB's or such.....its all up to me as a driver and setup to win...not my esc....

problem solved...
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Old 11-24-2009, 07:20 PM   #6758
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here is some info to pass along...at the MCC 09 we had a good mix...here are the top 5 in each adult division....

PRO
1ST XRAY 009 SPX
2ND AE TC4 SPX
3RD XRAY 006 SPX
4TH AE TC5R SPX
5TH XRAY 007 SPX

SPORTSMAN
1ST AE TC3 GTB
2ND AE TC5 GTB
3RD XRAY T1 HAVOK
4TH TM CAR HAVOK
5TH TM CAR HAVOK

ROOKIE
1ST AE TC4 GTB
2ND XRAY 007 SPHERE
3RD XRAY 006 TC SPEC
4TH AE TC3 TRAXXAS
5TH AE TC4RTR TEKIN RS

And most in each division run same skill level....you can combine Sport and rookie to one division...since the all are running the same tech...but the Pro Div. is all adv. esc's.(SPX)...this is just an example on how this ESC thing can be resolved w/o dipping into any pockets...it works for us...and if you have 10-20 guys running VTA you can make it work locally....

also check all the big VTA races across the country and see whats bring home the gold.....

the US Champs are this weekend ...I wonder who is running old esc's or tech in VTA?......get back with ya on that....
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Old 11-24-2009, 08:19 PM   #6759
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Originally Posted by DARKSIDE View Post

maybe since we have been so GOOOOOD to Novak...the can go a little step forward for our ESC...make us a esc w/ boost at about $100....maybe get with AE or Losi and make us a RTR USVTA car that is legal out the box...(HPI dropped the ball)......jmo...but most of our locals have the right tools to mix it up...rather we run separate divisions like pro and rookie or we run gentlemen rules...the VTA class is for everyone and still the best class for on-road
Excellent point about the RTR USVTA legal car.

Our track would love to have a RTR USVTA car that is legal out of the box. We have turned to racing Slashes and Short Course Trucks with jumps on the road course to get new people involved in road course racing. Our oval program thrives with people racing spec rtr cars (losi sliders or mini sliders). On oval we get 50+ entries each week. With road course it is only 12 to 16.

We have watched other classes die over the last few years (Speed GT-rubber tire touring with 10.5 motor or 19turn and sporty bodies and even 1/12 is on life support this year for various reasons). At one point we had 24 guys running 10.5 rubber tire touring on a Tues. night. Talk about insane speed on a tight track . I think we kept Losi in business with the number of broken suspension arms and pieces that we had on a weekly basis with that kind of speed. (not picking on Losi as that's just what most everybody ran then) Most of those guys have left the hobby.

We have picked up several new racers with VTA and many of us veteran racers worry that the things that caused other classes to die will eventually hit VTA. VTA has gained quite a bit of speed from where we were when it all started. It will continue to do so if left unchecked.

If we spec'd a speed control, it would control the speed--simple as that. They have spec'd the motor, just do the same thing with the speed control.
A Havok for $59-$79 sure beats a $150 Tekin and laptop or a $180 LRP for someone who is getting into the hobby. Phase it in gradually for say next years rules.

Slower speeds will make for better, more controlled racing. Better drivers with good equipment will still rise to the top, but new racers will be able to control the cars and stay in the hobby.

Just my $.02 on it.

John
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Old 11-24-2009, 08:20 PM   #6760
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As I mentioned before I am not a V TA driver, but I had a four cell car ready to go. But when the VTA became a 21.5 brushless class it became a TC class with different tires and bodies. I raced in the VTA class this summer because that's where my friend and I were put with our TT01's. We used 20T Traxxas Stinger motors, but they had just too much explosive speed. I love the passion, dedication and discussion of the guys on this forum. When this all started it was sold as class for guys with old chassises and a stock 27T motor. You saw a lot of guys jumping in. There is no going back, but to attract more people you probably need another division. You'll probably have to choose a cheap brushless set up like the Hobbywing set ups or whoever. I know you can get a 17.5 with an esc for less than $100. I know in Australia the Tamiya mini class drivers agreed on a Hobbywing system and they like it a lot. It does make any difference as long the price of getting in is cheap and you add a whole knew group drivers. I would like to run in the class, but I cannot afford an Xray, TC5, Corally etc.I cannot afford a top of the line esc.
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Old 11-24-2009, 08:30 PM   #6761
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Spec Novak Havoc esc....Done.
congratulations, you just killed the class

i personally know i am not made of $$ to buy a 1-use system/esc - and i'm fairly certain the other guys i race with wouldn't do it either

guess my area is gonna have to find another way control the class or go to RCGT
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Old 11-24-2009, 09:28 PM   #6762
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Originally Posted by k_bojar View Post
congratulations, you just killed the class

i personally know i am not made of $$ to buy a 1-use system/esc - and i'm fairly certain the other guys i race with wouldn't do it either

guess my area is gonna have to find another way control the class or go to RCGT
Kev,
When I race at SJCCR events, the straight and sweeper are long enough for the NitroVTA cars and that also makes them long enough for the high timing ESCs to run away from the regular ESCs. However, when I raced up on Staten Island with the Brownie's Hobbies crew, their track was tighter and the high-timing never came into play. We were shutting the Boost off, as it was just making heat. At Jackson, we found that running the layout through the backstraight kink and making the 180 at the end of the shortened straightaway took much of the high-timing advantage away.

Perhaps a few strategically placed plow dots and sections of Murray-turf (trademarked) would provide the close racing we used to have. Just a thought!
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Old 11-24-2009, 09:36 PM   #6763
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Originally Posted by k_bojar View Post
congratulations, you just killed the class

i personally know i am not made of $$ to buy a 1-use system/esc - and i'm fairly certain the other guys i race with wouldn't do it either

guess my area is gonna have to find another way control the class or go to RCGT
Come on...we are talking about a ESC that cost as much as a new set of VTA wheels and tires.


Just put your super turbo ESC in the RCGT and just like that, you'll have two fun class to race.
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Old 11-24-2009, 09:52 PM   #6764
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Kev,
When I race at SJCCR events, the straight and sweeper are long enough for the NitroVTA cars and that also makes them long enough for the high timing ESCs to run away from the regular ESCs. However, when I raced up on Staten Island with the Brownie's Hobbies crew, their track was tighter and the high-timing never came into play. We were shutting the Boost off, as it was just making heat. At Jackson, we found that running the layout through the backstraight kink and making the 180 at the end of the shortened straightaway took much of the high-timing advantage away.

Perhaps a few strategically placed plow dots and sections of Murray-turf (trademarked) would provide the close racing we used to have. Just a thought!
i agree - but the 2 big events you made it out to were exceptions unless ray actually does more races down at NJMP...the NJMP track is about twice the size we normally race on

Tighten up the track and you'll control the hi-speed speedos - correct..No need for any of this 1-use speedo crap
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Old 11-24-2009, 09:55 PM   #6765
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Come on...we are talking about a ESC that cost as much as a new set of VTA wheels and tires.


Just put your super turbo ESC in the RCGT and just like that, you'll have two fun class to race.
you're sure of that price point? you work for novak now? last i checked, a set of tires ain't gonna run you $80-$100 bucks

already have tekins in both the vta car and RCGT - and not gonna have the one esc sitting around doing nothing, sorry but that ain't gonna happen...
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