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Old 11-24-2009, 02:52 PM   #6736
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Originally Posted by rkhess View Post
if u have enough racers ...why not divide into two classes by skill level & equipment?

if u have 10 racers or more u should have two classes so the slow guys actaully feel the "spirit of VTA" every heat and main would be funner for both novice and pro

this coming from a slow guy
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Old 11-24-2009, 02:56 PM   #6737
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We should move on with new technology... in this case with adv. ESC

we have moved on with technology in all other aspecs, Lipo, BL, car kits... be real, not all the races run with TC3s, TC4s or TB03, some uses the new era cars that allows for a better tunning... (for some it makes then faster for some others don't) but they choose to run the new design cars because they think it will make them faster

So the same case with esc, racers choose to run adv. esc. to be faster...
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Old 11-24-2009, 03:06 PM   #6738
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I will keep saying it because it's true. If you're one of the fast guys then help out a slow guy. That's all there is to it. There is no voodoo to it....you need to practice and learn how a car works to win, plain and simple. Explain to the slower people that instead of spending $250 on a speedo, they buy a $20 dollar XXX Main book (and read it) and a extra couple days a week of practice time. Show them that even if you have "car/stuff x" but it handles good and they can run every lap within .5 tenths for 5 minutes - they can make the A main. All the speed in the world doesn't help when your in the wall waiting for a marshal.
But what you say is how it is in EVERY class. People act like VTA is unique and it simply isn't. That is where the hurt feelings come into play. People posting everywhere on the internet about how even the racing is, how anyone can win, how you don't need the latest equipment to win, blah blah blah. They are all false statements. It's just like every other class but with cooler looking bodies and wheels.
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Old 11-24-2009, 03:09 PM   #6739
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...why not divide into two classes by skill level & equipment? . . .
We have that now, it's called the "A" main and the "B" main.
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Old 11-24-2009, 03:19 PM   #6740
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But what you say is how it is in EVERY class. People act like VTA is unique and it simply isn't. That is where the hurt feelings come into play. People posting everywhere on the internet about how even the racing is, how anyone can win, how you don't need the latest equipment to win, blah blah blah. They are all false statements. It's just like every other class but with cooler looking bodies and wheels.
Totally agree. This summer we had a big festival race. $500 for first place. I think the guy that won was using tire warmers all day. VTA can be very serious and as not "newbie" friendly as any other serious class of RC racing.
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Old 11-24-2009, 03:54 PM   #6741
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Originally Posted by KE4PJO View Post
You aren't slow, who you trying to kid?
Where have you been?.......

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Originally Posted by kwkride View Post
We have that now, it's called the "A" main and the "B" main.
I think what he is saying....if 6 of us are all running GTB's or 4cell options we should race each other...and if the other 4 guys are running adv esc 21.5/lipo they run by themself....and when you put a label on it it doesnt feel second rate...

"A main" = Pro TA/USVTA RULES...no change
"B main" = Sportsman TA/USVTA RULES....no adv esc's

or

PRO VTA = RCGT.....LETS RACE IT ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 11-24-2009, 04:54 PM   #6742
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What I have pointed out for a long time is that the slower and easier to drive the car is, the closer the field gets. In most classes, guys run out of talent before they get to the limits of the car. It used to be in this class, that was less common. Most people could get everything out of their car.

As everything-batteries, escs, setups, get better, the cars get faster and we lose some of that competition. Yeah, the fast guys go to the front, but more guys can be fast when the cars are slower. I know that when we first started doing this, guys who I didn't expect to have to race hard could show me what's up--because they could handle the car.
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Old 11-24-2009, 04:59 PM   #6743
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What I have pointed out for a long time is that the slower and easier to drive the car is, the closer the field gets. In most classes, guys run out of talent before they get to the limits of the car. It used to be in this class, that was less common. Most people could get everything out of their car.

As everything-batteries, escs, setups, get better, the cars get faster and we lose some of that competition. Yeah, the fast guys go to the front, but more guys can be fast when the cars are slower. I know that when we first started doing this, guys who I didn't expect to have to race hard could show me what's up--because they could handle the car.
I agree with that. I guess that is kind of the point Im getting at. If VTA wants to get back to that point the rules would need to change drastically to remove the speed.
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Old 11-24-2009, 05:11 PM   #6744
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I agree with that. I guess that is kind of the point Im getting at. If VTA wants to get back to that point the rules would need to change drastically to remove the speed.
Now you understand the dilemma.
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Old 11-24-2009, 05:17 PM   #6745
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Now you understand the dilemma.
IMO, the easiest way would be to go to a spec brushed motor. Its little investment, it removes turbo / advanced ESC programming, and nearly everyone has a ESC that can run it. If you continue to spec the FDR you could keep it in a range where people wouldn't have to change brushes often. People will still do voodoo tricks on the motor but I don't think the gap in performance would be as big as it is today. Brushed motors kinda suck but I think they could work in this situation.
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Old 11-24-2009, 05:38 PM   #6746
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Novak 25.5 or a slower wind.

Enforce the "no Turbo or over 10deg timing" on speedos LRP on profile 1.

No tire sauce. Ever.

Physical motor timing on 0.
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Old 11-24-2009, 05:43 PM   #6747
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Originally Posted by or8ital View Post
IMO, the easiest way would be to go to a spec brushed motor. Its little investment, it removes turbo / advanced ESC programming, and nearly everyone has a ESC that can run it. If you continue to spec the FDR you could keep it in a range where people wouldn't have to change brushes often. People will still do voodoo tricks on the motor but I don't think the gap in performance would be as big as it is today. Brushed motors kinda suck but I think they could work in this situation.
how much investment are you talking about? Me personally I dont own any more brushed anything. So I would have to buy a motor or two incase I got a dud(35 dollars or so a motor????)....then a ESC(50 dollars used???).....then a Com lathe to work on said motor(75 dollars used????)....plus what ever brushes it takes(10 dollars or so????). Quick math here.... 35+50+75+10= 170 just for me alone....Im sure Im not the only one who sold off all his brushed stuff. Dont throw in the Silver can motor because thats a whole can of worms all on its own.

So just for arguments sake you are saying that it would be cheaper then say making a Spec ESC like the Novak Havoc for 59.00 refurbed or 79.00 NIB....plus there might even be some people that already have this ESC and are using it already? Or going your route would be better?
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Old 11-24-2009, 05:43 PM   #6748
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Novak 25.5 or a slower wind.

Enforce the "no Turbo or over 10deg timing" on speedos LRP on profile 1.

No tire sauce. Ever.

Physical motor timing on 0.
The two issues with this is that you are asking everyone to spend $100 on a new motor and the ESC thing is a nightmare to tech
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Old 11-24-2009, 05:46 PM   #6749
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well, it may be that if you want to play, you have to pay. just like if i want to race any other class and be legal, i have to spend the money needed to get into the class.

if for the betterment of the class going with a new ESC and motor setup is required to fully limit things and make it competitive, so be it.

And this is coming from someone who prefers to run other items ESC and Motor that are not novak. But if I want to play in the class, I have to conform to the rules too.

As a side note, anyone try 17.5 or 21.5 on 1S lipo in a VTA car?
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Old 11-24-2009, 05:49 PM   #6750
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how much investment are you talking about? Me personally I dont own any more brushed anything. So I would have to buy a motor or two incase I got a dud(35 dollars or so a motor????)....then a ESC(50 dollars used???).....then a Com lathe to work on said motor(75 dollars used????)....plus what ever brushes it takes(10 dollars or so????). Quick math here.... 35+50+75+10= 170 just for me alone....Im sure Im not the only one who sold off all his brushed stuff. Dont throw in the Silver can motor because thats a whole can of worms all on its own.

So just for arguments sake you are saying that it would be cheaper then say making a Spec ESC like the Novak Havoc for 59.00 refurbed or 79.00 NIB....plus there might even be some people that already have this ESC and are using it already? Or going your route would be better?
You are thinking in hardcore racing terms. If the FDR is speced as it is today then you could run a very long time on a brushed motor without needing to cut the comm or change the brushes. Most brushless speed controls handle brushed motors so hardly anyone would need to buy a new ESC.

It's not ideal but its an alternative to slowing things down again. The other option would be to spec a VTA specific esc that slowed things down. But then again its a big expense.

This all assumes VTA tries to minimize the expense to get into the class which has been a core thing from the start.
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