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Old 11-21-2009, 04:14 PM   #6706
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Thumbs up VTA AND TOURING CARS

First let me say i have been out of them r c world for a while and just got back.But vta to me seems to be a great class that has evoled into something that has become stuck.I really believe the boost issue has been cleared by just turning turbo off but still fun boost timing. I have been to a bunch of outdoor and indoor tracks with a lrp set on 4 and only had issues on the outdoor but again, when u gain what u lost on the straight in the infeild, just to loose it on the straight again gets old.The class is plenty fast as ive seen.
One change i would like to see is IMFAR qualifing.But thats streching it.and i was in ft wayne for the hurricane and did pretty well out of the chicago group
and we all had a blast sunday i was getting dizzy watchin u oval guys saturday night
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Old 11-21-2009, 05:18 PM   #6707
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Who else is bored with this discussion?
+1

Hope to see some of you guys coming to the Grand Slam Race #2 at THE TRACK in MD
locally the class has a big turnout...
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Old 11-22-2009, 04:16 PM   #6708
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I don't know if that $15 motor will fit in all of our $500 touring cars.
That statement to me shows how far away from everything I read was the original idea and spirit behind the start of VTA.
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Old 11-23-2009, 10:36 AM   #6709
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When 1:1 cars get too fast, they take away grip. One USVTA rule change will fix everything - RWD only. Take the the front belt off or remove the front dog bones.

This will:
* Slow the cars down.
* Make timing advance and ESC discussions irrelevant.
* Cost NOTHING.
* Require no additional teching of equiptment.
* Closer mirror the 1:1 racing we're trying to replicate.

The VTA tires can handle it and the cars are a lot of fun to drive with a little set up changes.
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Old 11-23-2009, 11:47 AM   #6710
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Originally Posted by 37 RACING View Post
Well there is 2 options!
1.have a True Spec VTA Class with spec motor/List of certain Spec speedo's/Spec battery with such as 5000 20 c pack

2.Have a Pro VTA class where you run any speedo/any 21.5/any battery
This doesn't sound like a bad idea. Where I run VTA, its pretty much like #2 though the battery mah size is still limited, but any 21.5 is used.


I think the only thing I am curious about is there appears to be people who feel that those who are "fast" in VTA need to move on to a faster class like Touring. I guess to me I wonder "why"? And this is coming from someone who a middle of the pack driver at best.

If the guy is able to drive his vehicle within spec rules faster than others, I am not sure why people need to force them to go on to another class? Can someone elaborate on this?
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Old 11-23-2009, 01:17 PM   #6711
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I agree about the RWD car. Here's mine. Don
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Old 11-23-2009, 02:29 PM   #6712
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As far as doing this or doing that for the protection of the older non dynamic speedos, RobK has already done that. Read near the bottom of the rules to the changes.

LRP on profile one, all others with a maximum timing advance of 10 with no boost. That pretty much covers every single speedo on the market that will be made...
Where is this version of the rules posted? The only place I know of to look for USVTA official rules is here:
"apexspeed.com/usvintagetransam/rules/index.html"
I don't see anything about limiting timing or specific profiles. (Or driver figures either, but that's a different discussion.)

One thing to remember is that track size & layout has alot to do with how much advantage "timing/turbo boost" gives you. If the track is small with no long straightaways, the timing boost probably won't help much, but if your track has a 180' straight, the difference is HUGE.

OOPS! I just found another USVTA website that has slightly different rules, probably the ones you're referring to.
"usvintagetransam.com/rules/index.html"
Maybe they should fix the old website to just send you to the new one?? Anyway, it says this is a suggestion and NOT a rule.
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Old 11-23-2009, 02:35 PM   #6713
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Originally Posted by Kevin Marcy View Post
Where is this version of the rules posted? The only place I know of to look for USVTA official rules is here:
"apexspeed.com/usvintagetransam/rules/index.html"
I don't see anything about limiting timing or specific profiles. (Or driver figures either, but that's a different discussion.)

One thing to remember is that track size & layout has alot to do with how much advantage "timing/turbo boost" gives you. If the track is small with no long straightaways, the timing boost probably won't help much, but if your track has a 180' straight, the difference is HUGE.
Now I see how the arguments are starting,thats the old rules page from when Apex was top dog,for the newest and updated USVTA site remove the apexspeed.com from your link.Rob needs to have Apex take the old page down.

Lol you were editing at the same time I was posting
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Old 11-23-2009, 02:42 PM   #6714
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I think at our track if there were a spec and a PRO class there would be no spec. cars running. With the exception of 1 guy I know of everyone else has a new speedo , and that one guy has his Tekin on order.

Embrace the speed of the new technology and let things evolve naturally. ROOMAZOOMZOOM
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Old 11-23-2009, 03:20 PM   #6715
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http://www.usvintagetransam.com/rules/index.html
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Old 11-23-2009, 03:20 PM   #6716
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RCGT is the Pro class for VTA.
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Old 11-23-2009, 03:42 PM   #6717
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Doesn't matter if its a suggestion or not.

If you have problems with the advanced timing speed control, Rob has already posted what will fix it.

If people choose to embrace it... yay for them... if not, yay for them as well.

It's a choice.

I choose to run the turbo until I run at a place where the RD prohibits it.
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Old 11-23-2009, 04:19 PM   #6718
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Default re: class intent

nothing doug (apexspeed) ever wrote implied that there was a limit to the amount of talent that was permitted in this class. (at least not that i have read). if the rules are written well, talent will never drive the cost to race up very much, and that was the original deal. cost, realism, and ease of driving.

until brushless, spec'ing the motor was enough to effectively control the rip. now, there are two variables (motor & esc), and only one is being controlled. just lock in the second variable and get on with it. make it some cheap (pre-existing) combo and voila. (from there on out, the manufacturers must copy those specs if they want to sell a vta approved product). if you're into the 'rat race' of testing multiple motors to get the best one... you've outgrown vta, and really, you no longer have a valid reason to be racing a 'budget' class if you can afford multiple $80 motors. i know, we all like the muscle cars...

the rules, as is, are still pretty good. the program is a good one.. now it's time for people to get with it. stop making robk work so hard. simply put; "here's how it's done. now let's see how you stack up". any takers? no? then, perhaps one of the other 421 on-road classes currently being offered will work better for you.

at the end of the day, that is what racing is. be it at 1mph, or 300. if that's not what you like, perhaps racing isn't your thing afterall ...

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Old 11-23-2009, 08:43 PM   #6719
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Wow. 3 pages about speed controls. What exactly is wrong with the rule or "suggestion" that Rob already has in place for the new generation speedo's? I've seen first hand that this rule works, and works very well. Don't even get started about silvercans, you can look at the 100 pages of bickering on the TCS thread for that.

I've raced VTA since the beginning of the class and I think a lot of you are missing the point. Look at what this class already has going for it....not against it. If you want to competitively race VTA do you need a $500 T3...no. Do you need 5 different motors to burn through for a weekend race....no. Do you need to worry about which Jayco/Sorex/blue/green/blah blah tire works best for the track....no. Do you have to try a R9R/LTR/Mazda Speed 999 or whatever body to get the best traction on a certain day....no. This is already a great class for EVERYBODY of all skill levels to run......from a 9 yr. old boy to a factory sponsored driver, and everyone in between. We don't need a "Pro" class because we already have a system for that. The re-sorts between rounds and A/B/C mains sort everyone out according to skill level.

I think what's getting lost in this is that on any given race day, the local club racer can go toe to toe with the national level top notch driver and have a chance to win. That's the coolest part about it...if you get beat it's not because of $$$$ (or endless tires, bodies, motors, etc...), it's because the other guy had a little better set up or drove a better race - and that's all there is to it. Take a step back and think about it.

I want to give a huge THANKS to Marty, Doug, Rob, Kevin, Trackside, The Track and everyone else who has helped this class evolve to a national level. Without these guys, we wouldn't even have a class to talk about.
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Old 11-23-2009, 08:54 PM   #6720
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WOW, I think that some people forgot that TA was supposed to be a slower spec type class, how you drive, not what you can afford. Come on already, after two months, is this really still going on............... I'm speechless, I give up.
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