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Old 11-20-2009, 05:07 PM   #6676
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Just like listing USVTA approved bodies, I like the idea of a list of USVTA approved ESCs. GTB, Havok sport, XBT, Losi Xcelorin, LRP Sphere, etc. All the older, cheaper, non timing adjustable ESCs.
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Old 11-20-2009, 06:13 PM   #6677
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Originally Posted by Kevin K View Post
Thanks for the info....this is exactly what I was thinking about....so it can be done it looks like.
so what do we do about all the loyal VTA racers that went ahead a bought other esc's...not directly for the "boost" but because they got what they was told was the esc to have...or just wanted that brand or was starting from scratch and bought all new stuff....

do we tell them
a. go run another class with the Novak 21.5
b. buy another motor like 17.5/13.5 and run dumb a$$ tc
c.suck it up and buy another $80 piece of euipment to go slower than what you already are?.....

guys there isnt an easy solution...I have several esc's in 6 different TA/VTA cars, ranging from TC3' with GTX's and TC5's with SPX's...and enough $$$$ to do pretty much whatever....but everybody cant...so we have to look out for the masses....there is no way we should even think about asking the thousands running VTA to all of a sudden scrap your current esc and buy esc"X"...if we do that we need to spec the whole car....servo,chassis,wires, rx,radio and ect...this isnt going to grow this class with more confusion...besides...this is suppose to be a "budget" class...its starting to look pretty high if this keeps up....

how many ppl at your local tracks are running older stuff?.....and if they are raise the money to upgrade them...or do give-a-ways...but dont ask the Nation of VTA's to buy more stuff....bring in the higher FDR for bigger events...a pinion gear is alot cheaper than a esc..even if its only $80..jmo

if we need to change anything is our bodies...need more!...we are losing racers to RCGT due to the mass amount of different bodies they can choose from...

and to answer you ????? going from VTA to RCGT...I didnt change anything but motor,body,tires...and stay in the top 3....even running RCGT against rubber tire 17.5 tc....

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I need to drive east next season and chase you around that track like I chase you around ours ))
I have a trophy race Sunday here in Nashville for TA...come on up Justin and Cliff and Melvin Lee will be here as well as some Alabama boys coming to get some....
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Old 11-20-2009, 09:02 PM   #6678
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so what do we do about all the loyal VTA racers that went ahead a bought other esc's...not directly for the "boost" but because they got what they was told was the esc to have...or just wanted that brand or was starting from scratch and bought all new stuff....

do we tell them
a. go run another class with the Novak 21.5
b. buy another motor like 17.5/13.5 and run dumb a$$ tc
c.suck it up and buy another $80 piece of euipment to go slower than what you already are?.....

guys there isnt an easy solution...I have several esc's in 6 different TA/VTA cars, ranging from TC3' with GTX's and TC5's with SPX's...and enough $$$$ to do pretty much whatever....but everybody cant...so we have to look out for the masses....there is no way we should even think about asking the thousands running VTA to all of a sudden scrap your current esc and buy esc"X"...if we do that we need to spec the whole car....servo,chassis,wires, rx,radio and ect...this isnt going to grow this class with more confusion...besides...this is suppose to be a "budget" class...its starting to look pretty high if this keeps up....

how many ppl at your local tracks are running older stuff?.....and if they are raise the money to upgrade them...or do give-a-ways...but dont ask the Nation of VTA's to buy more stuff....bring in the higher FDR for bigger events...a pinion gear is alot cheaper than a esc..even if its only $80..jmo

if we need to change anything is our bodies...need more!...we are losing racers to RCGT due to the mass amount of different bodies they can choose from...

and to answer you ????? going from VTA to RCGT...I didnt change anything but motor,body,tires...and stay in the top 3....even running RCGT against rubber tire 17.5 tc....
+1 - I personally cannot think of a better way to kill a class then to force only 1 kind of motor/esc combo...I understand and fully support the motor concept, but the 1 'legal' esc is absolutely bogus (personal sponsorship conflictions or not)

this will absolutely kill the class as a whole for any existing racers...the people that are whining about boost and whatnot, then try racing another class - the bitchin' and moanin' about boost and whatnot is just getting freaking old...every fourth or 5th page, the same crap starts again...its doing nothing but giving those against the class amminunition to NOT run the class - way to go!
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Old 11-20-2009, 09:05 PM   #6679
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Here come the fun Nazis, always trying to dictate what people can use again.
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Old 11-20-2009, 09:24 PM   #6680
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Wish I could come man because I have a ton of time off from work, but our club banquet is Sunday.
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Old 11-21-2009, 08:18 AM   #6681
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There really should be no complaints, then, when certain racers show up with $250.00-$300.00 plus "special" controllers that are not readily available commercially. Or, that feature programming for Factory Drivers, only.

There will be issues in many areas of entry-level, spec-type racing until, (or unless) race directors consider the "arms race" developing with all the new racing equipment. This situation will not get better on its own. I regularly scan forums devoted to different areas/types of racing and this is a major concern for a lot of racers and series organizers.

The products, and offer, that I outlined above are primarily for situations where there is an interest in attracting new (budget-conscious) racers, who may not have the money or the inclination to invest heavily in racing electronics until they figure out whether, or not, they want to continue.

These potential participants may lose interest almost immediately once they discover---that to be competitive---they must spend spend @300+ on a BL system. From a business point of view, we would much rather sell $300+ systems than the budget $159 systems.
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Old 11-21-2009, 08:33 AM   #6682
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i was a no advanced timing guy but after testing the new havok pro w/ ballistic motor u can dail in timing through the motor and it is JUST AS FAST AS A SPX and u get a motor and esc for the same cost as spx

it is also too late to try to change the rules ...trust me i wanted them to change but the class is awesome NO MORE RULES PLEASE


maybe a outlaw VTA class to move the "VTA PROS" out ...if your track has enough racers of course


this is just an opinion
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Old 11-21-2009, 08:51 AM   #6683
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Originally Posted by Dondor View Post
Wish I could come man because I have a ton of time off from work, but our club banquet is Sunday.
I would love to see the pics from that...sounds really fun..with the games,fishing, and racing ..not to mention the food and friends...

but dont worry..check my sig...Im doing a "special" TA race once a month..and the next Enduro is coming...cya soon

class seperation or divisions as we call them seem to work well if you have enough...that would be the solution for the USVTA Nats 2010...imo...it worked great for the MCC here in Nashville...or just up the FDR for adv esc's..simple cheap problem solver
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Old 11-21-2009, 09:10 AM   #6684
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i was a no advanced timing guy but after testing the new havok pro w/ ballistic motor u can dail in timing through the motor and it is JUST AS FAST AS A SPX and u get a motor and esc for the same cost as spx....
Music to my ears......
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Old 11-21-2009, 11:05 AM   #6685
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Well this is a funny topic because all the people who have bought the high dollar speedo's to race a spec class seem to forget this was suppose to be a spec class for the budget racer!It was not suppose to be a high tech/equipment oriented class!The current touring car class was suppose to be for the high dollar equipment!But when the biggest class was spec alot of the upper racers wanted to race in a class with the most cars so they switch and bring there high dollar/technolegy with them and then want everyone to convert to there way's and call it innovation and advance with the times!Remember you came to a SPEC class and sometimes rules will have to change because a Organization cannot alway's tell when a Manafacturer is coming out with something new and you don't alway's know it's better till t's been used and tested!You also have to remeber most people can afford $70.00 for a speedo this is like buying a motor and thats resonable because your always gonna have smaller items in racing it's part of the game but when have to cough up $200 to $300 thats harder to do for average racer!The part what do you do to people who have already bought these sppedo's!Sell them or run them in another car!I have watched the Tekin speedo's sell ont the board's and they don't last a day and are getting almost new price!

Well there is 2 options!
1.have a True Spec VTA Class with spec motor/List of certain Spec speedo's/Spec battery with such as 5000 20 c pack

2.Have a Pro VTA class where you run any speedo/any 21.5/any battery

If i was a betting man i would say the upper true spec class would be the largest class and the pro class would be like most touring car classes and have lower car counts because of the money/technolegy aspect!

Bottom line is the average racer getting into racing does not want to feel he is getting beat because of money/technologey thats why they race spec!They want to know they have good enough equipment to win soon as they figure out the set-up and there driving skills get better because they bought the equipment that was manadatory to race and everyone else has equal stuff!Then they know it's not equipment that's beating them!They feel they have same equipment as the guy who is winning or upfront now!The upper tier racers will alway's have a advantage somewhat because of their exspierince that's just racing!But it does help people stay in the sport when they don't have to spend ton's of money to Stay in hobby to compete with people that alway's buy the newest thing out to get a advantage!

This is Just a thought!
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Old 11-21-2009, 12:18 PM   #6686
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 37 RACING View Post
Well this is a funny topic because all the people who have bought the high dollar speedo's to race a spec class seem to forget this was suppose to be a spec class for the budget racer!It was not suppose to be a high tech/equipment oriented class!The current touring car class was suppose to be for the high dollar equipment!But when the biggest class was spec alot of the upper racers wanted to race in a class with the most cars so they switch and bring there high dollar/technolegy with them and then want everyone to convert to there way's and call it innovation and advance with the times!Remember you came to a SPEC class and sometimes rules will have to change because a Organization cannot alway's tell when a Manafacturer is coming out with something new and you don't alway's know it's better till t's been used and tested!You also have to remeber most people can afford $70.00 for a speedo this is like buying a motor and thats resonable because your always gonna have smaller items in racing it's part of the game but when have to cough up $200 to $300 thats harder to do for average racer!The part what do you do to people who have already bought these sppedo's!Sell them or run them in another car!I have watched the Tekin speedo's sell ont the board's and they don't last a day and are getting almost new price!

Well there is 2 options!
1.have a True Spec VTA Class with spec motor/List of certain Spec speedo's/Spec battery with such as 5000 20 c pack

2.Have a Pro VTA class where you run any speedo/any 21.5/any battery

If i was a betting man i would say the upper true spec class would be the largest class and the pro class would be like most touring car classes and have lower car counts because of the money/technolegy aspect!

Bottom line is the average racer getting into racing does not want to feel he is getting beat because of money/technologey thats why they race spec!They want to know they have good enough equipment to win soon as they figure out the set-up and there driving skills get better because they bought the equipment that was manadatory to race and everyone else has equal stuff!Then they know it's not equipment that's beating them!They feel they have same equipment as the guy who is winning or upfront now!The upper tier racers will alway's have a advantage somewhat because of their exspierince that's just racing!But it does help people stay in the sport when they don't have to spend ton's of money to Stay in hobby to compete with people that alway's buy the newest thing out to get a advantage!

This is Just a thought!
As a person who has been racing for awhile on a very tight budget, I am beginning to rethink this hobby. Because of all the Technology changes that manufacturers are introducing over a very short time period, I feel the manufacturers themselves are the biggest issue for preventing new people to come into the hobby or people like me to remain in the hobby. I truely feel the only way for on road to grow is to have a true spec class racing. AT least an entry level spec class and an advanced spec class. Reading about all the different motors, ESC's, batteries, etc. my head is starting to spin. I want to have fun in this hobby but I don't want to get my but kicked because I can't afford to keep up with the changing technology on a weekly basis. Parents will not spend a ton of money for their kids to get started only to have to get new stuff a week later. The Manufcturers are the ones hurting the hobby in their race to get the latest and greatest out first. Look how successful Off Road is with the Short course truck class. A box stock class that has huge turnouts. On Road needs the same thing with some sort of spec sanctioning. Leave the regular TC classes open to all the new gadgets. There needs to be a spec class that all the manufacturers can make a spec product for (so everyone can have their favorite/sponsor manufacturer). I know that if there was a spec class that I was racing in and everyone had the same spec motors and ESC's I would have more fun even if I was getting beat. At least I would know it was my lack of driving and set up skills that I would need to work on and not finding a way to win the LOTTO to stay in the hobby.
If there was Spec tolorences for all the manufacturers to follow Ready to Run kits would be able to race competitively and companys would sell more and the hobby would grow.
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Old 11-21-2009, 12:41 PM   #6687
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he is a question...

are we looking for a solution on a local level or national level...he is why I ask...

if locally you have a racer(s) that are more than 1 lap on the field...they need to move up a class or slow the car down by radio, higher fdr ect...locally its up to the racers and race director to make sure the "spirit" isnt hurt by newer tech or by just more advanced drivers...

if we are on a national level, its really up to the USVTA aka Rob and Co. to come with a solution and its up to us as loyal VTA racers to follow suit...the last thing we need is more misunderstanding about the class....

Im not worried about it cause this is still the BEST R/C class around..and whatever come about we will race and have fun....

as far as giving up due to change...talk to your local racers and keep everyone on the same page...I text and email most of the VTA racers here on a weekly term...I stay in touch with guys across the region to insure we keep Trans-am on the mind of new racers....

2010 will be here soon, lets all start putting some effort into getting more ppl into the class, you never know how things will turn out...we might end up with National races all over the country...that will DEMAND respect from the R/C world!!!!!

ie Birds...hummm
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Old 11-21-2009, 01:33 PM   #6688
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if we are on a national level, its really up to the USVTA aka Rob and Co. to come with a solution and its up to us as loyal VTA racers to follow suit...the last thing we need is more misunderstanding about the class....
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Old 11-21-2009, 01:42 PM   #6689
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I went to a 5.1 FDR with 0 timing on the motor, profile one on the LRP speedo and guess what I still turned the same amount of lap times at my track 10.8 sec. across the board and still ahead of the pack a lap or 2. My car is very free and loosen up. My opinion is if the class does change to a spec speedo make it one you don't have to use a hand held device or laptop to tune it. But to me I don't care what happens it is a competitive class and we all run on the same tires. If we go all spec and then we have a pro driver racing with us and he wins by 1 or 2 laps with the same equipment like everyone else, then we know to step up our driving abilities.

Why I said that is. At my track I have driven most of my competition's cars that I beat. Their cars are as fast as mine if not faster. It is their driving ability. I am no pro driver of any means. It seems to me that the ones that are complaining are the ones that don't have their driving abilities up to par yet.

Let's stay with the rules we have and suck it up and RACE. More complaining that goes on will eventually ruin the class.
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Old 11-21-2009, 01:50 PM   #6690
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There is spec, and there is SPEC.

VTA has specs.

Slash racing is SPEC.

There is a huge difference in the two.

As far as the big boys coming down to move to a class with greater numbers, that may be the case, but I do doubt they are the ones trying to get everyone to change to the other type of speedo / powerplant.

When 21.5 / Lipo was allowed, how long was it before that was the dominating powerplant regardless of the newer dynamic speedos?

It is a technology shift that will happen with our without everyone's consent. It's part of the hobby, things like this happen.

As far as doing this or doing that for the protection of the older non dynamic speedos, RobK has already done that. Read near the bottom of the rules to the changes.

LRP on profile one, all others with a maximum timing advance of 10 with no boost. That pretty much covers every single speedo on the market that will be made. If something comes up with a funky profile that hasn't been tested, like the Black Magic Box from CRC, I am confident in Rob & Co. to diagnose what will need to be done to bring it back down to earth if that is what need be.

Locally I am in agreement with Myron. Race Directors and Club officers can slow things down or do as what they did in Nahsville if I remember correctly, split up the class to Sportsman / Expert.

The solution is out there already.
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