1LikesU.S. Vintage Trans-Am Racing
11-19-2009, 05:18 PM
#6662
The idea of a basic, "spec"'d ESC is cool but the price would have to be VERY nice to encourage sales, especially being produced and marketed for 1 class (VTA), UNLESS this idea would be adopted for other spec classes such as the F1 classes we have here in Indy.
Why would I want to go buy ESC X for $75 to put in my VTA car, when I can get a used GTB or Sphere for the same price? Sure, the ESC would become spec equipment, but there is no way EVERY VTA racer would make the switch overnight, so what's to stop me from just running my current one a little bit longer? You'll have people holding out till the very last minute to switch, which will aggravate the guys who make the change immediately due to discrepancies in performance, OR you'll have people waiting until they can get a used one for $40 or so. I'm not saying this is my personal opinion, I'm just speculating.
One plus side to a bare-bones "ESC X" for a very low price is that non-VTA racers would use them for basher vehicles. That's why the Havoc's are/were so popular. Electric trucks and parking lot TC's would benefit greatly from a super-cheap ESC if their owners only wanted something to power their 13.5 motors and nothing more.
Just thoughts...... if every piece of electrical equipment gets spec'd, I'll still race it
Why would I want to go buy ESC X for $75 to put in my VTA car, when I can get a used GTB or Sphere for the same price? Sure, the ESC would become spec equipment, but there is no way EVERY VTA racer would make the switch overnight, so what's to stop me from just running my current one a little bit longer? You'll have people holding out till the very last minute to switch, which will aggravate the guys who make the change immediately due to discrepancies in performance, OR you'll have people waiting until they can get a used one for $40 or so. I'm not saying this is my personal opinion, I'm just speculating.
One plus side to a bare-bones "ESC X" for a very low price is that non-VTA racers would use them for basher vehicles. That's why the Havoc's are/were so popular. Electric trucks and parking lot TC's would benefit greatly from a super-cheap ESC if their owners only wanted something to power their 13.5 motors and nothing more.
Just thoughts...... if every piece of electrical equipment gets spec'd, I'll still race it
11-19-2009, 05:49 PM
#6663
good point...that seems the big thing about trying to change anything like that as a National class....say I get the ESC X and come to Indy and they are not on that level...Im pretty much out of luck if they are running adv esc's...Im really feeling like there is no correct answer...
we have to realize all r/c classes are going faster...17.5 sedan/rcgt feels more like 13.5 of old..with GTB and Spheres...13.5 with adv esc's is like 10.5 and so on....even 12th scale with adv esc's is super fast...rather its 17.5 or 13.5...and 10.5 is stupid....the best thing to do at this point is to run the rules like they are and see how the Nats turn out.....
the suggestion at 5.0 works to a certain degree..
we have to realize all r/c classes are going faster...17.5 sedan/rcgt feels more like 13.5 of old..with GTB and Spheres...13.5 with adv esc's is like 10.5 and so on....even 12th scale with adv esc's is super fast...rather its 17.5 or 13.5...and 10.5 is stupid....the best thing to do at this point is to run the rules like they are and see how the Nats turn out.....
the suggestion at 5.0 works to a certain degree..
11-19-2009, 08:34 PM
#6664
Some of you probably are going to jump for me asking this, but I have a question regarding Roar and also the Vintage rules..
Does roar includes the Vintage Class at their national events?
Roar rules for Vintage class are different from what the US VTA website has as rules, so which oned are to be consider the rules for the Vintage class
Roar rules allows any 21.5 BL motor, which in my opinion makes a lot of sense since motor nowadays are pretty much the same, ESC is what makes the difference.
There is also no limit on ESC to use or their features.
Me personally, I'm in favor to the use of new technology, Hope that Roar does includes Vintage class in their national races since the electric carpet nationals are at the local track
Does roar includes the Vintage Class at their national events?
Roar rules for Vintage class are different from what the US VTA website has as rules, so which oned are to be consider the rules for the Vintage class
Roar rules allows any 21.5 BL motor, which in my opinion makes a lot of sense since motor nowadays are pretty much the same, ESC is what makes the difference.
There is also no limit on ESC to use or their features.
Me personally, I'm in favor to the use of new technology, Hope that Roar does includes Vintage class in their national races since the electric carpet nationals are at the local track
Last edited by RC-ProSpeed; 11-19-2009 at 09:06 PM.
11-20-2009, 12:04 AM
#6665
go by the USVTA rules...it will save you alot of confusion...just like the US Champs that offered VTA under ROAR...BAD IDEA...and it got changed to make for better racing and less mis-direction....
not all 21.5's are the same....using at least one brand of motor makes things alot easier for techs and keeping the motor of the month crap from ever surfacing...if you are running a Novak 21.5 and Im running the same Novak 21.5...it will never be debated....the esc's are enough to work with as well as gears (FDR)...changing anything at this point to me seems more of a step backwards....
like I stated before...the technology isnt going to stop...we like all forms of r/c racing will have to get in the goove as well....IMO, by summer of 2010, you want see round cells, brush motors, reg esc's and hopefully foam tires..lol...no company is looking to improve on old tech....change the FDR and lets race...
I'll bet you and anybody else lunch, you want see a 4 cell 27t/17.5 car at the Nats or any big race next year...any takers...and if you do they wont be in the A,B, or C mains
not all 21.5's are the same....using at least one brand of motor makes things alot easier for techs and keeping the motor of the month crap from ever surfacing...if you are running a Novak 21.5 and Im running the same Novak 21.5...it will never be debated....the esc's are enough to work with as well as gears (FDR)...changing anything at this point to me seems more of a step backwards....
like I stated before...the technology isnt going to stop...we like all forms of r/c racing will have to get in the goove as well....IMO, by summer of 2010, you want see round cells, brush motors, reg esc's and hopefully foam tires..lol...no company is looking to improve on old tech....change the FDR and lets race...
I'll bet you and anybody else lunch, you want see a 4 cell 27t/17.5 car at the Nats or any big race next year...any takers...and if you do they wont be in the A,B, or C mains
11-20-2009, 07:29 AM
#6666
Tech Regular
iTrader: (2)
I had asked about the 25.5 wind motors as we were discussing the overspeed of the class as it is fast approaching 17.5 speeds.
One of the problems with a 'spec' ESC is if you limit it to what you specified earlier... no timing boost, what happens when or if that person decides to move up to a different class... say 17.5. That ESC will be obsolete as soon as he makes that decision.
There is no right answer for the ESC problem, it is just a technology shift that is currently happening. New rules and changes will have to be talked about and adopted for the class to continue to thrive.
Just a bit of info on our last race Battman )
Lee finished 1st out of a field of 14 running a T2 / GTB / Ballistic
Justin 2nd Photon / LRP / can't remember
They were on the same lap
I finished 3rd (still having corner speed pushing) running T2'007 / Tekin / SS 21.5 1 lap down
We have been telling some of the Novice drivers the next logical step in skill will be to VTA before moving to a faster Touring Car / Nitro class.
As of late the VTA is the largest class by far, with Mini being 2nd and 17.5 3rd.
One of the problems with a 'spec' ESC is if you limit it to what you specified earlier... no timing boost, what happens when or if that person decides to move up to a different class... say 17.5. That ESC will be obsolete as soon as he makes that decision.
There is no right answer for the ESC problem, it is just a technology shift that is currently happening. New rules and changes will have to be talked about and adopted for the class to continue to thrive.
Just a bit of info on our last race Battman )
Lee finished 1st out of a field of 14 running a T2 / GTB / Ballistic
Justin 2nd Photon / LRP / can't remember
They were on the same lap
I finished 3rd (still having corner speed pushing) running T2'007 / Tekin / SS 21.5 1 lap down
We have been telling some of the Novice drivers the next logical step in skill will be to VTA before moving to a faster Touring Car / Nitro class.
As of late the VTA is the largest class by far, with Mini being 2nd and 17.5 3rd.
11-20-2009, 07:49 AM
#6667
Yes the Novak Ballistic 21.5 is legal for VTA as they run the same as the older SS models.....just have the new cool can and other features.
Maybe Novak or someone can come out with a SPEC class ESC that has ZERO TIMING advance or something like that and sell it for like 60 or 70 dollars would the racers buy this? I think it might solve new speed and ESC issues but this might be a dream and too hard to come up with.
Maybe Novak or someone can come out with a SPEC class ESC that has ZERO TIMING advance or something like that and sell it for like 60 or 70 dollars would the racers buy this? I think it might solve new speed and ESC issues but this might be a dream and too hard to come up with.
We will begin shipping our new Havoc 1S, which includes the SmartBoost circuitry, in the next few weeks. 99.99
11-20-2009, 07:54 AM
#6668
And believe me when I say that this is a super speedo. Simple to set up, and will go all weekend without coming close to overheating in this class.
We already offer the Havoc series of controllers w/no timing advance; the Havoc 2S Sport BL (8.5T motor limit) is 79.99 new, and 59.99 factory remanufactured (w/new 120 day warranty).
We will begin shipping our new Havoc 1S, which includes the SmartBoost circuitry, in the next few weeks. 99.99
We will begin shipping our new Havoc 1S, which includes the SmartBoost circuitry, in the next few weeks. 99.99
11-20-2009, 08:03 AM
#6669
The GTBs have not been discontinued and we still offer them thru distribution, (and re-manufactured in our store for @110.)
The Havoc Pro controller for 99.99 has easier, and fuller, on-board programming than the GTBs with a motor limit of 3.5 turns.
We offer a full line of controllers under $100 that would keep the playing field more level, and more affordable; and possibly more attractive to new budget-conscious racers.
Here is a link to a tech article (PDF) on our Ballistic motor timing:
Ballistic Motor Timing Information
As you can read, the factory pre-set on our Ballistics (as well as our earlier Velocitis and SS Pros) is 30 degrees. But the Ballistic has almost unlimited timing adjustments.
The Havoc Pro controller for 99.99 has easier, and fuller, on-board programming than the GTBs with a motor limit of 3.5 turns.
We offer a full line of controllers under $100 that would keep the playing field more level, and more affordable; and possibly more attractive to new budget-conscious racers.
Here is a link to a tech article (PDF) on our Ballistic motor timing:
Ballistic Motor Timing Information
As you can read, the factory pre-set on our Ballistics (as well as our earlier Velocitis and SS Pros) is 30 degrees. But the Ballistic has almost unlimited timing adjustments.
11-20-2009, 08:19 AM
#6670
[QUOTE=NovakTwo;6623058]The GTBs have not been discontinued and we still offer them thru distribution, (and re-manufactured in our store for @110.)
QUOTE]
I knew we couldnt get them locally...sorry for mis-informing....
Dondor....thats nice to see....especially on that big track...
QUOTE]
I knew we couldnt get them locally...sorry for mis-informing....
Dondor....thats nice to see....especially on that big track...
11-20-2009, 08:53 AM
#6671
Tech Champion
iTrader: (32)
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: In a land of mini-mighty mental giants
Posts: 8,854
Trader Rating: 32 (100%+)
We already offer the Havoc series of controllers w/no timing advance; the Havoc 2S Sport BL (8.5T motor limit) is 79.99 new, and 59.99 factory remanufactured (w/new 120 day warranty).
We will begin shipping our new Havoc 1S, which includes the SmartBoost circuitry, in the next few weeks. 99.99
We will begin shipping our new Havoc 1S, which includes the SmartBoost circuitry, in the next few weeks. 99.99
11-20-2009, 08:58 AM
#6673
Tech Champion
iTrader: (32)
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: In a land of mini-mighty mental giants
Posts: 8,854
Trader Rating: 32 (100%+)
The idea of a basic, "spec"'d ESC is cool but the price would have to be VERY nice to encourage sales, especially being produced and marketed for 1 class (VTA), UNLESS this idea would be adopted for other spec classes such as the F1 classes we have here in Indy.
Why would I want to go buy ESC X for $75 to put in my VTA car, when I can get a used GTB or Sphere for the same price? Sure, the ESC would become spec equipment, but there is no way EVERY VTA racer would make the switch overnight, so what's to stop me from just running my current one a little bit longer? You'll have people holding out till the very last minute to switch, which will aggravate the guys who make the change immediately due to discrepancies in performance, OR you'll have people waiting until they can get a used one for $40 or so. I'm not saying this is my personal opinion, I'm just speculating.
One plus side to a bare-bones "ESC X" for a very low price is that non-VTA racers would use them for basher vehicles. That's why the Havoc's are/were so popular. Electric trucks and parking lot TC's would benefit greatly from a super-cheap ESC if their owners only wanted something to power their 13.5 motors and nothing more.
Just thoughts...... if every piece of electrical equipment gets spec'd, I'll still race it
Why would I want to go buy ESC X for $75 to put in my VTA car, when I can get a used GTB or Sphere for the same price? Sure, the ESC would become spec equipment, but there is no way EVERY VTA racer would make the switch overnight, so what's to stop me from just running my current one a little bit longer? You'll have people holding out till the very last minute to switch, which will aggravate the guys who make the change immediately due to discrepancies in performance, OR you'll have people waiting until they can get a used one for $40 or so. I'm not saying this is my personal opinion, I'm just speculating.
One plus side to a bare-bones "ESC X" for a very low price is that non-VTA racers would use them for basher vehicles. That's why the Havoc's are/were so popular. Electric trucks and parking lot TC's would benefit greatly from a super-cheap ESC if their owners only wanted something to power their 13.5 motors and nothing more.
Just thoughts...... if every piece of electrical equipment gets spec'd, I'll still race it
11-20-2009, 09:36 AM
#6674
Is it possible to spec certain aspecs of an ESC instead? So then those who prefer to run other brands justs need to pickup the "USVTA Approved" version, like how I can run any brand of ROAR legal lipos that fit the USVTA rules?
Separate question, any of you guys also running RCGT? curious what setup changes you find going from VTA to RCGT on the same car.
Separate question, any of you guys also running RCGT? curious what setup changes you find going from VTA to RCGT on the same car.
11-20-2009, 10:08 AM
#6675
We could offer a Vintage Spec System on line, built to the criteria you select. We have all the elements available---the Havoc 2S (or 1S) controllers and either the SS Pro motors or the Ballistics.
Because we manufacture everything here in Irvine, we can offer to customize the components to a certain extent. For example esc wire length, battery plug, heat sink or motor plate, fan or no fan, etc.
The Ballistic motor offers even more options:
~ wound stator (several choices)
~ bearings (ceramic or stainless steel)
~ rotor (2-3 choices)
~ input harness (3 lengths)
~ motor sleeve (5 choices)
Here is a link to the listing of our Havoc Spec systems with our standard configurations:
Novak Havoc Sport/Spec Systems
Because we manufacture everything here in Irvine, we can offer to customize the components to a certain extent. For example esc wire length, battery plug, heat sink or motor plate, fan or no fan, etc.
The Ballistic motor offers even more options:
~ wound stator (several choices)
~ bearings (ceramic or stainless steel)
~ rotor (2-3 choices)
~ input harness (3 lengths)
~ motor sleeve (5 choices)
Here is a link to the listing of our Havoc Spec systems with our standard configurations:
Novak Havoc Sport/Spec Systems