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Old 09-28-2009, 08:29 PM   #6361
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Hey guys. I have a tuning question for ya. I'm running a tub chassis TC4 and I'm trying to get more steering out of it. The track is indoor carpet and fairly technical. I have my EPAs set good (wheels just about hit the shocks). I'd like to get tighter steering for tight turns. My car seems to turn just a tad too wide. What adjustments on the tub TC4 can be made to tighten up steering?

Thanks!
normally for me to get my tc3/5 to turn more...I just dope the front tires more
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Old 09-28-2009, 08:34 PM   #6362
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Originally Posted by clunker View Post
Hey guys. I have a tuning question for ya. I'm running a tub chassis TC4 and I'm trying to get more steering out of it. The track is indoor carpet and fairly technical. I have my EPAs set good (wheels just about hit the shocks). I'd like to get tighter steering for tight turns. My car seems to turn just a tad too wide. What adjustments on the tub TC4 can be made to tighten up steering?

Thanks!
Is the rear diff to tight? If your front tires almost hit the shocks you should have good steering unless you have something preventing it from turning. The car could just be pushing real hard. Are you getting the weight of the car onto the front wheels on entry?
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Old 09-28-2009, 08:48 PM   #6363
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bolhapoint.com.br

edit: maybe we did crash it
looks like they let their domain name expire I found it for sale elsewhere though

http://www.aerotechmodels.com.br/br/...60e3d0b4d54aaf

looks like ahybrid of a 66 & 67 to me... godawful paint certainly doesn't help!
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Old 09-28-2009, 09:10 PM   #6364
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So where do you get the Pegasus bodies from...directly through Pegasus Hobbies? Do I need to call them?
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Old 09-28-2009, 09:40 PM   #6365
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So where do you get the Pegasus bodies from...directly through Pegasus Hobbies? Do I need to call them?
I ordered mine directly from Horizon, which should (and I DO mean "should", not "will") be able to order them from any shop that uses Horizon as a distributor.
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Old 09-28-2009, 09:55 PM   #6366
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I did get that link to work. They still look better than the Parma. Not as good as HPI. Maybe a little better than Pegasus. They need to fill that rear bumper in.
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Old 09-28-2009, 10:29 PM   #6367
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clunker View Post
Hey guys. I have a tuning question for ya. I'm running a tub chassis TC4 and I'm trying to get more steering out of it. The track is indoor carpet and fairly technical. I have my EPAs set good (wheels just about hit the shocks). I'd like to get tighter steering for tight turns. My car seems to turn just a tad too wide. What adjustments on the tub TC4 can be made to tighten up steering?

Thanks!
Try adding more rear droop to transfer more weight. Try moving the lower arms to the rear of the chassis to put more weight on the front end. Try less rear toe in. Try a little more front camber. Try raising your rear roll center for less rear bite. Try a softer front spring or harder rear spring. Try leaning in the front shocks or standing up the rears. Try a one way front diff Try a longer top front camber link................ What else do you want to know?
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Last edited by Slotmachine; 09-28-2009 at 10:31 PM. Reason: More info......
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Old 09-29-2009, 06:27 AM   #6368
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So where do you get the Pegasus bodies from...directly through Pegasus Hobbies? Do I need to call them?
I got mine from A-main. You can order it on backorder and they fill it. It took about 2 weeks to get the Mustang version. You can also call Pegasus and request one directly even though they don't list them on their own website.
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Old 09-29-2009, 06:28 AM   #6369
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Try adding more rear droop to transfer more weight. Try moving the lower arms to the rear of the chassis to put more weight on the front end. Try less rear toe in. Try a little more front camber. Try raising your rear roll center for less rear bite. Try a softer front spring or harder rear spring. Try leaning in the front shocks or standing up the rears. Try a one way front diff Try a longer top front camber link................ What else do you want to know?
Will eating green jello make a better driver?
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Old 09-29-2009, 06:41 AM   #6370
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Originally Posted by snoopyrc View Post
Is the rear diff to tight? If your front tires almost hit the shocks you should have good steering unless you have something preventing it from turning. The car could just be pushing real hard. Are you getting the weight of the car onto the front wheels on entry?
+1 Front diff should be a little tighter than the rear. Mine was slipping just a touch after my last rebuild and it wasn't pretty. I adjusted it properly and checked for slip. My son's car was rubbing the lower shock mounting bolt at full lock on his TC3 because of the rim offset. I switched to the inside hole on the arm, put a rear shock tower brace on the front and used the body post mounting hole for the upper shock mount. It gave the desired shock angle the car needed.
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Old 09-29-2009, 07:20 AM   #6371
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Originally Posted by DARKSIDE View Post
normally for me to get my tc3/5 to turn more...I just dope the front tires more
I've been covering the fronts all but the last band of tread. Will that last (out-most) band make much of a difference?

Quote:
Originally Posted by snoopyrc View Post
Is the rear diff to tight? If your front tires almost hit the shocks you should have good steering unless you have something preventing it from turning. The car could just be pushing real hard. Are you getting the weight of the car onto the front wheels on entry?
Rear diff is about as lose as it can be w/o slipping. Front is fairly lose, but not as much as the rear.

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Originally Posted by Slotmachine View Post
Try adding more rear droop to transfer more weight. Try moving the lower arms to the rear of the chassis to put more weight on the front end. Try less rear toe in. Try a little more front camber. Try raising your rear roll center for less rear bite. Try a softer front spring or harder rear spring. Try leaning in the front shocks or standing up the rears. Try a one way front diff Try a longer top front camber link................ What else do you want to know?
-I have droop right now at 5mm front, 4mm rear. What numbers should I be aiming for?
-Front lower arms are set 2 spacers on the front side of the pin and one behind. Should I put them all in front? Also, should I move the rear lower at all. The rears have 2 spacers in back, one in front.
-Front shocks are leaning in already (2nd closest to inside on top and outer on bottom). Rears are leaning too, but I finally got good traction in the rear and I'd hate to lose any there.
-No one-ways allowed
-Front camber link is set as long as it can be (and has 3 washers inboard)

Quote:
Originally Posted by liljohn1064 View Post
+1 Front diff should be a little tighter than the rear. Mine was slipping just a touch after my last rebuild and it wasn't pretty. I adjusted it properly and checked for slip. My son's car was rubbing the lower shock mounting bolt at full lock on his TC3 because of the rim offset. I switched to the inside hole on the arm, put a rear shock tower brace on the front and used the body post mounting hole for the upper shock mount. It gave the desired shock angle the car needed.
-The front should still be pretty lose though, correct? Mine's tighter than the front, but still on the loser end of the spectrum.
-Would your mod to the front stiffen it up and decrease the front grip?

BTW, the shocks all have 30wt oil, #2 pistons (I think), and blue front springs, green rears.

Thanks for all your help guys! Yous da best
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Old 09-29-2009, 07:43 AM   #6372
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Originally Posted by clunker View Post
I've been covering the fronts all but the last band of tread. Will that last (out-most) band make much of a difference?
Yes
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Originally Posted by clunker View Post
Rear diff is about as lose as it can be w/o slipping. Front is fairly lose, but not as much as the rear.
Tighten the front diff


Quote:
Originally Posted by clunker View Post
-I have droop right now at 5mm front, 4mm rear. What numbers should I be aiming for? 1.5mm-2mm front, 2-2.5mm rear

-Front lower arms are set 2 spacers on the front side of the pin and one behind. Should I put them all in front? Also, should I move the rear lower at all. The rears have 2 spacers in back, one in front.
Judging by what you have said, you have kick up in the front, and pro squat in the back. You probably want to start with all the pins flat-even spacers on both blocks. What caster block do you have? I would start with 4* EDIT Crap, i thought you were talking about the spacers for the hinge pin blocks, not the wheelbase. You said move the rear lower, I thought hinge pin block:/ The wheelbase actually looks ok

-Front shocks are leaning in already (2nd closest to inside on top and outer on bottom). Rears are leaning too, but I finally got good traction in the rear and I'd hate to lose any there.How much toe in for the rear? how is the wheelbase set? Those also have a big effect on stability and steering. Also, if you move the bottom of the front shock to the inside hole, you will have more steering than you will know what to do with. Also, you say you want more steering, but does it turn in at all? or push out of the corner?

-No one-ways allowed This is not a problem

-Front camber link is set as long as it can be (and has 3 washers inboard)Why? remove washers and your car will have more front grip. Camber change is your friend at this point.
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Originally Posted by clunker View Post
-The front should still be pretty lose though, correct?No Mine's tighter than the front, but still on the loser end of the spectrum.The front diff is a different case than the rear. You want it to be tighter. As it gets tighter, it helps the steering. A spool will have more steering. A one way will have more steering too, as on power it's a spool, and off power it's freewheeling

-Would your mod to the front stiffen it up and decrease the front grip? No, he went to the inside hole on the arm. That is way more of change than the upper mount hole.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clunker View Post
BTW, the shocks all have 30wt oil, #2 pistons (I think), and blue front springs, green rears.

Thanks for all your help guys! Yous da best
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Old 09-29-2009, 07:46 AM   #6373
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Originally Posted by clunker View Post
I've been covering the fronts all but the last band of tread. Will that last (out-most) band make much of a difference?



Rear diff is about as lose as it can be w/o slipping. Front is fairly lose, but not as much as the rear.



-I have droop right now at 5mm front, 4mm rear. What numbers should I be aiming for?
-Front lower arms are set 2 spacers on the front side of the pin and one behind. Should I put them all in front? Also, should I move the rear lower at all. The rears have 2 spacers in back, one in front.
-Front shocks are leaning in already (2nd closest to inside on top and outer on bottom). Rears are leaning too, but I finally got good traction in the rear and I'd hate to lose any there.
-No one-ways allowed
-Front camber link is set as long as it can be (and has 3 washers inboard)



-The front should still be pretty lose though, correct? Mine's tighter than the front, but still on the loser end of the spectrum.
-Would your mod to the front stiffen it up and decrease the front grip?

BTW, the shocks all have 30wt oil, #2 pistons (I think), and blue front springs, green rears.

Thanks for all your help guys! Yous da best
The rear tower on the front increases the shock angle for side bite. It creates better initial steering. Moving the shock inboard and laying it down actually softens its reaction. I run 40 wt oil and 2 hole pistons in the front. I sauce half the front tire and test. If its too much traction I go to 1/4. By your description of sauce, you should have a ton of steering. If its pushing still, increase camber a half degree or try a lighter front spring, like silver.

How much negative camber? I personally like -1.5*. It give a nice contact patch.
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Last edited by liljohn1064; 09-29-2009 at 07:47 AM. Reason: too much information....
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Old 09-29-2009, 07:49 AM   #6374
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Originally Posted by clunker View Post
Hey guys. I have a tuning question for ya. I'm running a tub chassis TC4 and I'm trying to get more steering out of it. The track is indoor carpet and fairly technical. I have my EPAs set good (wheels just about hit the shocks). I'd like to get tighter steering for tight turns. My car seems to turn just a tad too wide. What adjustments on the tub TC4 can be made to tighten up steering?

Thanks!
I've seen a few good suggestions for resolving your problem, but another area to think about would be adjusting your braking points going into a turn. Sometimes a car will push if its driven into a turn too hard - maybe you could back off on the total amount of braking power (which will allow you to hit the brakes harder until you learn to modulate them) and brake going into the turn. As the saying goes - slow in, fast out...

Otherwise, I'd look to make sure that your rear differential works as freely as possible (without slipping), or possibly adding a rear sway bar (start with a thinner bar, and work your way up if necessary).
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Old 09-29-2009, 07:59 AM   #6375
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For information purposes only.

Did some dynamic testing with VTA and a Tekin RS this weekend at the races.

Xray 007, SMC 5000, Novak 21.5SS

Heat 1... FDR 4.95 (has been suggested to run 21.5 at a higher FDR to slow them down) Boost 0, Turbo 0 (No advanced timing at all) Result... 17laps 5.10

Heat 2... FDR 4.95 Boost 15, Turbo MAX Delay 1.0 (Front straight 120', if you are able to hold full throttle from entry to loop is 210' of usable straight.) Result... 17laps 5.02

Heat 3... FDR 4.3 Boost 15, Turbo MAX Delay 1.0. Result... 17laps 5.02

Fastest lap of the day was turned by a GTB / Lipo / 21.5ss combo.

My personal fast lap was a bit faster from heat 1 to heat 2 by .5 sec. Could have been attributed as well to familiararity with the layout. Didn't run too many laps in TC as the AMB wasn't counting. Heat 2 would be after I had another TC run as well. 17.2 for Heat 1... 16.7 for Heat 2 and 16.7 for Heat 3.

From this, the dynamic timing helped me gain 1/2 second a lap.

Hope this information is useful.
What was the initial timing on the motor for each round?
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Last edited by liljohn1064; 09-29-2009 at 08:00 AM. Reason: writer's cramp
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