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Old 08-28-2009, 08:58 AM   #5956
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maybe the answer is not slowing the cars down but going to a harder tire that makes it harder to use all that extra power
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Old 08-28-2009, 10:01 AM   #5957
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Originally Posted by HarryN View Post
If you want restrictions, here are some ideas, so people dont have to spend extra money:

If people have Tekin RS/Pro you need to do the following:

- NO TURBO BOOST (for version 200 firmware)
- NO TIMING BOOST (for all versions)

If LRP:

- USE NORMAL SETUP! No added boosts!

If Speed Passion:

- NORMAL SETUP! No boosts!!

I think this is going to peeve a few people off.
This seems like the simplest answer to me. Don't "outlaw" the high end ESCs. Just tell them that in VTA they can't advance the timing.
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Old 08-28-2009, 10:18 AM   #5958
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This seems like the simplest answer to me. Don't "outlaw" the high end ESCs. Just tell them that in VTA they can't advance the timing.
lrp spx still has the timing advance on the lower profiles but it's just not as strong as the upper profiles. so you can't turn if off.. down but not off. atleast from what I've seen & tested.
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Old 08-28-2009, 10:34 AM   #5959
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Again, Please forgive me for implying we ban newer ESCs. They are part of the future. They give us that tuning feeling some of us like to experience. I like to fiddle too. My concern was scaring away new blood with speeds they are not comfortable with or the feeling of never having a chance of winning before they even try. Its a not a great feeling. Been there, done that, don't want to do it again. I was reading in another post about the state of the industry via magazine coverage and it looks like we the consumer like our realistic rides. That means more TA, more RCGT, more WGT, more F1. A lot of our community use 1S for 12th, WGT and oval racing, basically anywhere where 4 cell was used. My WGT is 1S 13.5 and weighs in at 940 grams. It looks just like a C6R on a road coarse. So I personally will be investing in 1S batteries and boosters for a couple of cars, maybe my spare TA just to experiment locally. I'm considering running 1S in my unlimited F1 also for weight and space savings to fit more realistic bodies, this would be a 10.5 1S car if all goes well. I have my Sedan to go fast with and when my skill eclipses 17.5, I might try 13.5 or better.
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Old 08-28-2009, 11:40 AM   #5960
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You can't expect tracks to tech speedo settings, besides it's not going to accomplish the goal anyway, people will still find the best speedo even at the lowest setting. A SP lpf 1.1 with no "boost" was still a good bit faster than a GTB in my car. The only way to truly spec the class would be to say, novak havok 21.5 kist part #:XXXX and that's it, but no one wants that and its understandable. I like the cars at 21.5 speed, but I would also like to use my gtb and not lose out down the straight, the slower the cars are, the bigger the difference every little bit makes.


1S might not be a great idea from a safety standpoint, how many speedo's have a 1 cell cutoff setting? newbs running their lipos dead might start some fires.
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Old 08-28-2009, 11:42 AM   #5961
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Hi everyone,

A couple of questions about HPI Vintage TA bodies:

Do you have a preference based solely on whether a body is a one piece body (68 Camaro) or a two piece body (Mustang and Cuda)?

What would you like to see in future bodies?
a. Same level of performance and detail/realism as the current bodies
b. More realistic details even at the cost of performance
c. More performance at the cost of realistic details

Would Lexan light buckets be a welcome addition to the bodies?

Thanks,

AndyH
hpi racing usa
Personally, I like the bodies as they are, with the exception of the Barracuda which seems a bit thin in the front. 190mm bodies don't really seem necessary, even with the 'Cuda being a bit wide. I've used all three HPI Vintage bodies, and prefer a 1 piece design. However, if you use 2-56 screws (along with appropriate washers) the rear panels won't detach during a race. Light buckets, while cool, seem unnecessary for these bodies (especially w/o beefing up the front of these cars to protect the buckets).

As for new bodies, I'd like to see a 2nd generation ('68-'70) Mustang, an AMC Javelin, and a '70-'72 Firebird (minus the "Fire Chicken", please )...
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Old 08-28-2009, 11:54 AM   #5962
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Another thing that is in line for some evaluation is a higher FDR. I only worry that this is going to play into the timing issue, as I think that it makes the timing an even bigger advantage.
Agreed. Using a 4.8 FDR and dynamic timing, my VTA car could outrun many cars using a 17.5 motor. Raising the FDR would proabaly provide more of an advantage, especially on smaller layouts.
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Old 08-28-2009, 02:13 PM   #5963
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Originally Posted by oeoeo327 View Post
Personally, I like the bodies as they are, with the exception of the Barracuda which seems a bit thin in the front.

Light buckets, while cool, seem unnecessary for these bodies (especially w/o beefing up the front of these cars to protect the buckets).
The Cuda is thin but most shells are fine. Light trays would actually strengthen the shell.
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Old 08-28-2009, 02:18 PM   #5964
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Agreed. Using a 4.8 FDR and dynamic timing, my VTA car could outrun many cars using a 17.5 motor. Raising the FDR would proabaly provide more of an advantage, especially on smaller layouts.


people a burning up motrs using the 4.2gear ratio... if you up the ratio the faster the cars get on those long back stretches and the hotter they will get...

Alex
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Old 08-28-2009, 02:33 PM   #5965
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people a burning up motrs using the 4.2gear ratio... if you up the ratio the faster the cars get on those long back stretches and the hotter they will get...

Alex
If the FDR goes up, lighter gearing, it will be over reving that heats the motor. Without ESC curving, the cars should in theory go slower and run cooler unless the motor is over reving. Now throw in timing curve which bumps the motor for additional revs at the top end and you can match the speed of a 17.5. It still runs cool in the infield and has a much better top end.
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Old 08-28-2009, 02:38 PM   #5966
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Originally Posted by liljohn1064 View Post
If the FDR goes up, lighter gearing, it will be over reving that heats the motor. Without ESC curving, the cars should in theory go slower and run cooler unless the motor is over reving. Now throw in timing curve which bumps the motor for additional revs at the top end and you can match the speed of a 17.5. It still runs cool in the infield and has a much better top end.
I've run my motor at 5.0 and it comes off at 110* and was a complete torque monster in the infield and pokey slow on the straight. The 4.8 mentioned above is reasonable for what I'd try with a speedo I could time.
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Old 08-28-2009, 02:49 PM   #5967
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First off, I like the formula the way it is. I run the LiPo / 21.5 Novak option. I have a Tekin RS, but I don't use the turbo boost because I don't feel I need it. I do bump the timing somewhat, but not as much as some people I race with.

If I run a perfect race, I can win. If I don't, I won't. It seems to hold true for the rest of the field as well. That seems to be what VTA is about if you ask me. I'm running the spec and can win without needing to constantly buy the latest equipment. From where I am standing, the spec seems to work.

That being said, I am not opposed to slowing the formula down. However, I don't expect the 1S lipo to slow things down long term. By Christmas next year, I fully expect the big players (Tekin, LRP, Speedpassion, Novak) to all have dedicated 1S speedos. From there I expect them to be able to coax more power out of 1S lipos then we see currently, much like we saw them do with spec motors.

Sadly, I don't have a better solution, but I felt I should contribute a viewpoint that hasn't been mentioned yet. I think best case would be higher wind brushless motors, maybe a 24.5. Sure, timing boost would still exist, but it would slow things down. Unfortunately I don't think there is enough demand for high wind motors in R/C so we will likely never see them.
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Old 08-28-2009, 03:03 PM   #5968
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Originally Posted by BNiels707 View Post
First off, I like the formula the way it is. I run the LiPo / 21.5 Novak option. I have a Tekin RS, but I don't use the turbo boost because I don't feel I need it. I do bump the timing somewhat, but not as much as some people I race with.

If I run a perfect race, I can win. If I don't, I won't. It seems to hold true for the rest of the field as well. That seems to be what VTA is about if you ask me. I'm running the spec and can win without needing to constantly buy the latest equipment. From where I am standing, the spec seems to work.

That being said, I am not opposed to slowing the formula down. However, I don't expect the 1S lipo to slow things down long term. By Christmas next year, I fully expect the big players (Tekin, LRP, Speedpassion, Novak) to all have dedicated 1S speedos. From there I expect them to be able to coax more power out of 1S lipos then we see currently, much like we saw them do with spec motors.

Sadly, I don't have a better solution, but I felt I should contribute a viewpoint that hasn't been mentioned yet. I think best case would be higher wind brushless motors, maybe a 24.5. Sure, timing boost would still exist, but it would slow things down. Unfortunately I don't think there is enough demand for high wind motors in R/C so we will likely never see them.
I don't think managing the timing alone is a big problem. You can only do so much before the motor just doesn't like it one way or the other depending on what track you are setting up for. I applaude that you do not run turbo. That is the where the advantage of the RS comes in and future speedos for that matter.
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Old 08-28-2009, 03:09 PM   #5969
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Originally Posted by BNiels707 View Post
First off, I like the formula the way it is. I run the LiPo / 21.5 Novak option. I have a Tekin RS, but I don't use the turbo boost because I don't feel I need it. I do bump the timing somewhat, but not as much as some people I race with.

If I run a perfect race, I can win. If I don't, I won't. It seems to hold true for the rest of the field as well. That seems to be what VTA is about if you ask me. I'm running the spec and can win without needing to constantly buy the latest equipment. From where I am standing, the spec seems to work.

That being said, I am not opposed to slowing the formula down. However, I don't expect the 1S lipo to slow things down long term. By Christmas next year, I fully expect the big players (Tekin, LRP, Speedpassion, Novak) to all have dedicated 1S speedos. From there I expect them to be able to coax more power out of 1S lipos then we see currently, much like we saw them do with spec motors.

Sadly, I don't have a better solution, but I felt I should contribute a viewpoint that hasn't been mentioned yet. I think best case would be higher wind brushless motors, maybe a 24.5. Sure, timing boost would still exist, but it would slow things down. Unfortunately I don't think there is enough demand for high wind motors in R/C so we will likely never see them.

+1

I did PM one of the Reps for a well known Co. regarding higher wind motors and he replied that they did some testing with mostly in oval but the reviews were not positive. But that is in oval though.

With the F1 cars becoming more popular running a silver can motor I would think that a higher wind brushless motor would be a great substitute for silver can.
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Old 08-28-2009, 03:40 PM   #5970
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It has been mentioned before, but breakout racing is what is needed in VTA.
Biggest problem with "breakout racing" is that it isn't practical for folks running on temporary tracks, either indoors (a LOT of clubs out there, ours included) or outdoors (the great majority of tracks/clubs). Breakouts can be established on a track that is down for some time and some testing can be done, but in the "real world" (those of us not blessed with a permanent facility) you roll the track out in the morning, MAYBE get a half pack in for practice (where DOES the track go this week) and then it's into the heats. End of the day, track gets rolled back up again.

Quote:
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I think best case would be higher wind brushless motors, maybe a 24.5. Sure, timing boost would still exist, but it would slow things down. Unfortunately I don't think there is enough demand for high wind motors in R/C so we will likely never see them.
My understanding is that they're kind of approaching the practical maximum of how much wire they can wedge into a 540-size can much beyond 21.5, plus even sensored esc's start to struggle a bit from dead stop.
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