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Old 08-27-2009, 01:10 PM   #5896
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Originally Posted by Sohlman113 View Post
Once again I agree with hound dog. And what does "if you have to win mean" 95% of RC racers would like to win. Again thats why they call it racing. The class rules state that any esc can be used. A new driver getting into VTA will obviously do research on rctech and other sites on esc's and come up with his own oppinions. Most people will probably tell that person to buy an lrp or tekin. Now you are tellling that person they cant run that esc they just purchased. Sounds extremely unfair. Technology changes everyday. Just want to let you know that at the HPI challenge in New Jersey the winner on VTA ran a speed passion 2.0 and guess what he beat a few of the Tekin's. So I really dont see the issue here.
OK, enough sarcasm. The SP 2.0 is programmable with its own interface. 100% of racers would like to win. 5% will try to win at all costs even if it spoils everyone elses fun.

You don't get VTA either. Its about cool cars and driving talent. Its getting too fast already this year. We are already approching 17.5 speeds from last year. Most of the new guys don't know anything about carrying corner speed or driving a nice line. These new guys are showing up with new cars and the latest and greatest electronics and a Novak 21.5. They have enough money in their rigs to pay their mortgage for a month and this is TRANS AM. This class is about resurrecting a car we don't drive, tossing in some gear and competing with a track full of relatively equal cars all the way down to the D main. Driving talent was supposed to surface, but now these cars are almost point and shoot powerful. This class needs some slowing down. If you want to run a top end speedo, that's fine, but there should be some restrictions. Its not fair to the guy who can only afford a Havoc combo or the new guy buying his first setup and isn't on RCTech. They should be competitive too. If your that good, move up to RCGT or Sedan.
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Old 08-27-2009, 01:11 PM   #5897
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Dave I think you know the answer to that lol. Everybody wants to win they just say they dont care but in the end guess what? They care. At your local raceway I bet they guys that yell at the marshalls the most and complain the most are the ones that say they dont care. That seems to be what happens lol. So than why do yell and complain lol.
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Old 08-27-2009, 01:16 PM   #5898
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OK, enough sarcasm. The SP 2.0 is programmable with its own interface. 100% of racers would like to win. 5% will try to win at all costs even if it spoils everyone elses fun.

You don't get VTA either. Its about cool cars and driving talent. Its getting too fast already this year. We are already approching 17.5 speeds from last year. Most of the new guys don't know anything about carrying corner speed or driving a nice line. These new guys are showing up with new cars and the latest and greatest electronics and a Novak 21.5. They have enough money in their rigs to pay their mortgage for a month and this is TRANS AM. This class is about resurrecting a car we don't drive, tossing in some gear and competing with a track full of relatively equal cars all the way down to the D main. Driving talent was supposed to surface, but now these cars are almost point and shoot powerful. This class needs some slowing down. If you want to run a top end speedo, that's fine, but there should be some restrictions. Its not fair to the guy who can only afford a Havoc combo or the new guy buying his first setup and isn't on RCTech. They should be competitive too. If your that good, move up to RCGT or Sedan.
If you want restrictions, here are some ideas, so people dont have to spend extra money:

If people have Tekin RS/Pro you need to do the following:

- NO TURBO BOOST (for version 200 firmware)
- NO TIMING BOOST (for all versions)

If LRP:

- USE NORMAL SETUP! No added boosts!

If Speed Passion:

- NORMAL SETUP! No boosts!!

I think this is going to peeve a few people off.
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Old 08-27-2009, 01:17 PM   #5899
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[QUOTE=dave;6265042]
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Originally Posted by If you have to win here, you're in the wrong class. [/QUOTE

If you dont care about winning, what different does it make how fast someone else is?

Dave
Its about attitude. I care about winning, but not at the cost of the fun of this class. The word "have" means "necessary". There is only one winner per race. It is not and never will be necessary to be the winner in any toy car race until they pay me to race. I don't run my car into a wall because I didn't win TA. I've seen it happen. Would I like to win, sure. Every time I go out. But I'm not a jerk to my fellow racers because I didn't.

Seems like everyone is out for blood today.
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Old 08-27-2009, 01:18 PM   #5900
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Originally Posted by HarryN View Post
If you want restrictions, here are some ideas, so people dont have to spend extra money:

If people have Tekin RS/Pro you need to do the following:

- NO TURBO BOOST (for version 200 firmware)
- NO TIMING BOOST (for all versions)

If LRP:

- USE NORMAL SETUP! No added boosts!

If Speed Passion:

- NORMAL SETUP! No boosts!!

I think this is going to peeve a few people off.
Yeah, but they don't have your experience Harry. And I agree with you.
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Old 08-27-2009, 01:21 PM   #5901
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I dont think we are out for blood I just think that with the current technology you are as slow as you are going to get. There is nothing slower than a 21.5 in brushless and nobody wants to go out and buy a 30t brushed motor because it simply wont last. I think the class is fine the way it is. The class gets huge turnouts everywhere do not go changing the class now it will only hurt it.
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Old 08-27-2009, 01:21 PM   #5902
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Originally Posted by hound_dogs_01 View Post
...it ALWAYS comes down to driver in ever class you run, PERIOD!

edit: liljohn im not trying to start a fight here I'm just simply stating my opinion... ESC's are like computers, once you take it home play with it for a few months and get to liking it somthing bigger and better is ont he slef and yours is obsolete... its the same way with any electronics these days...

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Originally Posted by Sohlman113 View Post
...Just want to let you know that at the HPI challenge in New Jersey the winner on VTA ran a speed passion 2.0 and guess what he beat a few of the Tekin's. So I really dont see the issue here.
You guys WILL see the issue sooner or later. Sure there's always a good driver that wins because they should win. But the difference between a good driver with a high-timing speedo and one without is many tenths per lap. We had a SP vs. LRP vs. RS war break out at a recent VTA race on the east coast. Those three drivers put LAPS on the field. The 145' straightaway helped. It was rediculous. Not what anyone wants in ANY class, no less VTA.

This discussion is moot though as most ESCs will have some sort of high-timing feature in due time. We're having growing pains with this issue, the same type of pains we had going to BL and Lipo. It happens. Sadly, we can't adjust FDR to get ourselves a level playing field b'c that would negatively affect the non-adjustable ESCs more than it would the adjustable ESCs.
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Old 08-27-2009, 01:27 PM   #5903
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I dont think we are out for blood I just think that with the current technology you are as slow as you are going to get. There is nothing slower than a 21.5 in brushless and nobody wants to go out and buy a 30t brushed motor because it simply wont last. I think the class is fine the way it is. The class gets huge turnouts everywhere do not go changing the class now it will only hurt it.
I can agree there. But the new ESCs do make a difference all else being equal.
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Old 08-27-2009, 01:33 PM   #5904
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Personally, the increased adjustability isn't my gripe....it's the extra speed we've found this season. Our tires are providing more traction than some of the spec offerings in the 17.5 class, and thus our lap times are getting too close for comfort. While some like the VTA bodies and wish to go as fast as possible, that notion defeats the main purpose of VTA, to be less expensive, slower, closer racing across the whole field, not just the top 3 drivers.

Just a few thoughts, no solid solutions from me yet. Frankly, I'd like to find a way to get a few tenths further away from 17.5, for a multitude of reasons (tire wear, class seperation, beginner appeal, etc.).
I would agree 100%. Things have really changed over the last year or so with the batteries and speedos and even motors and the way you can gear them. So rather than limit this or outlaw that... I think we should be asking one simple question.... Is it too fast that the speeds do not fit into the "spirit" of the class anymore? I personally think it is too fast. I don't want to have to buy new stuff anymore than anyone else but will if it means it will make the class better I'll do it. I haven't tested anything yet but my guess would be a 1S/17.5 would be about right but maybe a 1S/21.5 would be even better. I just remember when I first started with a 4cell/17.5 with the FDR restriction (4.0 ??) and thought that was an awesome speed. I'm not a fan of NIMH's so jumped on the 21.5 option when it became available. But it is really quite fast... we even instituted a 5.0 FDR limit and a 1525 gr weight to slow things down a little. It did but not as much as we would have liked. I run a Tekin RS but have to gear around a 5.7-6.0 to be even with most other folks. If I ran a 5.0 or so ratio I would be just silly fast compared to everyone else. Please guys don't threaten to quit if things change... Rob just get as much feedback as you need and do what you feel is right for the class. If there is change set a date for it so people can prepare. Let's race!!
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Old 08-27-2009, 01:40 PM   #5905
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Originally Posted by HarryN View Post
If you want restrictions, here are some ideas, so people dont have to spend extra money:

If people have Tekin RS/Pro you need to do the following:

- NO TURBO BOOST (for version 200 firmware)
- NO TIMING BOOST (for all versions)

If LRP:

- USE NORMAL SETUP! No added boosts!

If Speed Passion:

- NORMAL SETUP! No boosts!!

I think this is going to peeve a few people off.
If closer competition is the goal, these ideas could work. There's one problem - the person in charge of tech would have to learn the ins-and-outs of every speedo combination available, and getting multiple heats of VTA through tech in a timely fashion would be close to impossible. Once all of the newer speedos begin to employ dynamic timing, you'll once again see equality, although at higher speeds than before...
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Old 08-27-2009, 01:40 PM   #5906
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OK Here's a wild idea. Everybody who's going to race brings a car with there own receiver out and a velcro strip inside where it mounts. Then have a random drawing for whos car you get to run. You drop in your receiver calibrate the esc and race.
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Old 08-27-2009, 01:45 PM   #5907
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I'll still be doing this for fun no matter where it ends up. I might be at the back of the pack again.

I don't have a say in the actual rules, but I am a voice and I do care about the class. Going to 17.5 1S sounds good to me. Its really hard to spool a motor back up with limited power, so clean racing and carrying speed becomes top dog again. Rubbing and banging will happen, but it shouldn't ruin your whole day and its what makes this class different.
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Old 08-27-2009, 01:45 PM   #5908
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Originally Posted by oeoeo327 View Post
Once all of the newer speedos begin to employ dynamic timing, you'll once again see equality, although at higher speeds than before...
That's worth being posted again.
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Old 08-27-2009, 01:46 PM   #5909
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OK Here's a wild idea. Everybody who's going to race brings a car with there own receiver out and a velcro strip inside where it mounts. Then have a random drawing for whos car you get to run. You drop in your receiver calibrate the esc and race.
That would be fun for a special race event. (with guys who trust each other)
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Old 08-27-2009, 01:50 PM   #5910
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OK Here's a wild idea. Everybody who's going to race brings a car with there own receiver out and a velcro strip inside where it mounts. Then have a random drawing for whos car you get to run. You drop in your receiver calibrate the esc and race.
Great until the noob with the new E10 draws the card for the decked out "Optomised" X-ray. I understand your frustration but again its a bad idea. I think the no boost rule would work well. It wouldnt knock you out if you have already bought the Tekin RS, or one of the others with advanced programming. You wouldnt be able to use that feature but you could still use the ESC.

Still makes it a pain to police. And are we talking about Thunder RC or the Official USVTA rules. Cause I gotta tell ya the latter is tired of hearing about it.

Has anyone tested 4cell 13.5 against the 21.5/2s?
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