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Old 08-27-2009, 12:28 PM   #5881
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Well said hound dog. Do not blame the esc's either guys. Yes the new esc's allow you to advance the timing. But lets be real that is not the reason why we get beat. If the guy beat you its not due to esc it is simply because guess what that day that person just drove better than you. RC is all about driving plane and simple I have seen some drivers with inferior equipment win simple because guess what they are just good. You will always have that person that is simply just amazing thats why we call it racing plus it gives you something to shoot for.
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Old 08-27-2009, 12:37 PM   #5882
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Originally Posted by hound_dogs_01 View Post
If i have to buy another ESC to run in this class i will simply not run in VTA anymore... I build my car around VTA its what ive learnd to drive on road in and a class i would like ot stay in for all of my racing days, but if i have t go buy another ESC I'll simply run 17.5 stock touring car and I knwo a ton of other people that would do the same.... if you change rules people will quit and the class will die.... leave the rules alone except for adding new bodies...


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Good point, but 90% of the racers don't have RSs. That's why mine is in my 17.5 Sedan. I can TQ just fine on last years equipment on a small technical track. I get on a track with a long straight, I regear, drive perfect lines and they walk away. Gearing doesn't help, ESC settings on my LPF don't help and a perfect setup doesn't help. The RS just drives away. This class is supposed to be fun. Those that can spend their way into extra speed when they've maxed out their ability make it less fun. In my case it was a fairly talented driver and all I could do was watch him drive away. You're telling me that I need to put in an RS or shut up.
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Old 08-27-2009, 12:37 PM   #5883
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Dont blame the speedo's....

littlejohn didnt you just say to me increasing the timing in a higher wind motor only crates heat?

Alex
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Old 08-27-2009, 12:38 PM   #5884
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Well said hound dog. Do not blame the esc's either guys. Yes the new esc's allow you to advance the timing. But lets be real that is not the reason why we get beat. If the guy beat you its not due to esc it is simply because guess what that day that person just drove better than you. RC is all about driving plane and simple I have seen some drivers with inferior equipment win simple because guess what they are just good. You will always have that person that is simply just amazing thats why we call it racing plus it gives you something to shoot for.
Typically true, but, Um yeah, it was. My car is usually faster until he dropped in an RS.
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Old 08-27-2009, 12:41 PM   #5885
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So yeah... If they change the ESC rule I wont run vintage simply because I Spent $250 on an ESC of MY choice because their was no rule against it, now you want to go and change the rules?


Simply retarded in my book....

Alex
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Old 08-27-2009, 12:46 PM   #5886
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Dont blame the speedo's....

littlejohn didnt you just say to me increasing the timing in a higher wind motor only crates heat?

Alex
Comparing apples to oranges, lets say RS Vs. GTB. Increasing the fixed motor timing will decrease torque and increase top end which generates heat. The RS enliminates the need to physically crank the initial timing and keep bottom end torque. The RS helps at the top end when turbo kicks in and electronically advances the timing which means he keeps all his low end torque and increases his top end. Its the best of both worlds and again, not what this class is about. If you have to win here, you're in the wrong class. The RS makes a huge difference on long straights. And yes his motor does run a little hotter.
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Old 08-27-2009, 12:46 PM   #5887
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hound_dogs_01 View Post
Dont blame the speedo's....
littlejohn didnt you just say to me increasing the timing in a higher wind motor only crates heat?
Alex
That is true of fixed timing settings, whereas the RS and some profiles on the SP/LRP speedos, they alter timing on the fly at higher RPMs where the load isn't as high, creating much less heat for a given timing setting.

After talking with a rep from a speedo manufacturer, it became apparent that all competition speedos will have a "high-timing" feature within the next year or so. Making rules around something that is going to be standard equipment will be a tough pill to swallow, especially for a class that was formed on "last years" equipment.

Personally, the increased adjustability isn't my gripe....it's the extra speed we've found this season. Our tires are providing more traction than some of the spec offerings in the 17.5 class, and thus our lap times are getting too close for comfort. While some like the VTA bodies and wish to go as fast as possible, that notion defeats the main purpose of VTA, to be less expensive, slower, closer racing across the whole field, not just the top 3 drivers.

Just a few thoughts, no solid solutions from me yet. Frankly, I'd like to find a way to get a few tenths further away from 17.5, for a multitude of reasons (tire wear, class seperation, beginner appeal, etc.).
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Old 08-27-2009, 12:55 PM   #5888
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So yeah... If they change the ESC rule I wont run vintage simply because I Spent $250 on an ESC of MY choice because their was no rule against it, now you want to go and change the rules?


Simply retarded in my book....

Alex


Exactly, you spent big money to go faster in a slow class. You should be in 17.5 or 13.5. Pick up a used GTB for $80. Have some fun. Equal the playing field. I don't have $400 tied up in my whole car and I can TQ it.

Did I say change the rules? No. If you don't know Robk is the current rules director for VTA and I was joking with him, but since you decided my reply was serious, I thought I'd respond.
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Old 08-27-2009, 12:55 PM   #5889
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This why you have the rookie, sportsman, and expert classes.... You class them from the times they turn....

Just because you have the fastest car on the track doesnt mean you can keep it out of the wall?

like my self, i ran run 6 or 7 good quality laps and then i break my concentation and i end up in the back of the pack... it ALWAYS comes down to driver in ever class you run, PERIOD!

edit: liljohn im not trying to start a fight here I'm just simply stating my opinion... ESC's are like computers, once you take it home play with it for a few months and get to liking it somthing bigger and better is ont he slef and yours is obsolete... its the same way with any electronics these days...

Alex
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Old 08-27-2009, 12:56 PM   #5890
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Once again I agree with hound dog. And what does "if you have to win mean" 95% of RC racers would like to win. Again thats why they call it racing. The class rules state that any esc can be used. A new driver getting into VTA will obviously do research on rctech and other sites on esc's and come up with his own oppinions. Most people will probably tell that person to buy an lrp or tekin. Now you are tellling that person they cant run that esc they just purchased. Sounds extremely unfair. Technology changes everyday. Just want to let you know that at the HPI challenge in New Jersey the winner on VTA ran a speed passion 2.0 and guess what he beat a few of the Tekin's. So I really dont see the issue here.
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Old 08-27-2009, 12:58 PM   #5891
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I believe Mr. King himself qualified 2nd at the VTA Nat's with a Speed Passion......? I can't remember specifically. But I DO know there were plenty of "standard" (non-RS/SPX) ESC's in the top 10, and the track is a decent size.
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Old 08-27-2009, 01:01 PM   #5892
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Here's the easy way to slow the cars down and get back to the close, door-to-door racing that made the class popular - outlaw the 21.5/Lipo combination.
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Old 08-27-2009, 01:03 PM   #5893
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You cant not allow LIPO now either because once again those people that purchased LIPOS which is practically everybody most likely got rid of their NiMh's. Plus NiMh's are not cost effective because they dont last as long. So nothing against what you just said but you cant not allow LiPo especially since ROAR just stated that ROAR for onroad will only allow LiPo's.
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Old 08-27-2009, 01:08 PM   #5894
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[QUOTE= If you have to win here, you're in the wrong class. QUOTE]

If you dont care about winning, what different does it make how fast someone else is?

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Old 08-27-2009, 01:09 PM   #5895
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i thought the rules did cover this sprit of the class or something at our club races there are car that run faster than 17.5 touring is that the sprit of the class? this class needs to slow down are a lot of new guys are not going keep racing. the only one's that thinks this is fair or the one's with the latest and greatest. i see some guy's tires worn out my tires still look almost new after running the same set all year. if driving is all that it takes to win what is wrong not running these faster esc.
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