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Old 08-14-2009, 04:28 PM   #5656
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Originally Posted by Dondor View Post
question for the rulemakers of vta.

i understand you can use any 17.5 as long as you gear / battery are in spec.

same with 27turn i think.

why is only 1 21.5 allowed but you can have any 17.5? something about the novak or others that make it faster.. or them faster? if that is the case, cant the same thing be said about the 17.5s?

there has to be a base reason and i was just curious.
Im not a rule maker but, the way I understand it is that the Novak 21.5 was the only ROAR approved 21.5 on the market at the time when the rules were put into effect....unlike the 17.5's.....

or it was the only 21.5 period...most ppl think 21.5..they think crawler motor..so the USVTA and Oval guys got the motor out there to be used for racing...just slower racing, which helps with the class.

but the class spread across the country like wild fire...and ppl got the Novak cause it is what the USVTA rules said...the issue with sticking with the 21.5 is a variety of personal reasons for some...

having everyone run the same motor/brand just helps keep the racing close..and with all the new ESC's coming out, we have to have something to keep it within the "Spirit"
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Old 08-14-2009, 05:33 PM   #5657
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The Novak 21.5 motor is the only one approved, as it was the first out there before any ROAR rules. 17.5 was already a ROAR class with specs for motors. Also, we wanted to avoid going down the motor of the month road, especially since there was no spec.

So far so good.
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Old 08-15-2009, 04:13 AM   #5658
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I just started this class this summer and have gotten better with my driving but it seems some are doing something to their cars they are way to fast. It may be the hot wire but I was at HT St.Charles Il and a guy was a lap behind me because a crash and caught up and past me in the straight like it was nothing. I run the novak gtb right now. I know everyone goes heigher than a 4.2 I think it is but come on, I cant get much more out of that thing with out a posible melt down.
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Old 08-15-2009, 06:25 AM   #5659
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I just started this class this summer and have gotten better with my driving but it seems some are doing something to their cars they are way to fast. It may be the hot wire but I was at HT St.Charles Il and a guy was a lap behind me because a crash and caught up and past me in the straight like it was nothing. I run the novak gtb right now. I know everyone goes heigher than a 4.2 I think it is but come on, I cant get much more out of that thing with out a posible melt down.
Car setup has a lot to do with with speed. Are any of these guys running the same car? Ask them if you setup is right.

Watch the lines they are running, this will help also.
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Old 08-15-2009, 09:49 AM   #5660
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I just started this class this summer and have gotten better with my driving but it seems some are doing something to their cars they are way to fast. It may be the hot wire but I was at HT St.Charles Il and a guy was a lap behind me because a crash and caught up and past me in the straight like it was nothing. I run the novak gtb right now. I know everyone goes heigher than a 4.2 I think it is but come on, I cant get much more out of that thing with out a posible melt down.
when you say hotwire?...what are you refering to..the tekin esc?...
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Old 08-15-2009, 08:14 PM   #5661
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Yes I am refering to the tekin. You hear some of the guys at the track saying they need more hotwire. My setup is fine for me I can corner and hang with them for a short while but I get tired of hearing them complain when they drive up my ass because I am in their way, and at that time I am usualy at full throttle then blame me for causing a wreck if you are that fast and are a lap ahead go around or give me a chance to move outside. Fuck it who cares it's a parckinglot race anyway.
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Old 08-15-2009, 10:41 PM   #5662
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Originally Posted by twelvegauge View Post
Yes I am refering to the tekin. You hear some of the guys at the track saying they need more hotwire. My setup is fine for me I can corner and hang with them for a short while but I get tired of hearing them complain when they drive up my ass because I am in their way, and at that time I am usualy at full throttle then blame me for causing a wreck if you are that fast and are a lap ahead go around or give me a chance to move outside. Fuck it who cares it's a parckinglot race anyway.
I feel for you. But lets talk about the car. What car do you have, what's it geared at, what are the GTB settings and how is it set up? If they're running an FDR lower than 4.2 that's not cool, but probably not the problem. To be honest though, 4.2 in most cars is too low anyway unless you have a really long straight. My cars tended to like 4.6 to 5.0 with a GTB.
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Old 08-16-2009, 05:57 AM   #5663
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We all started around 5.0 FDR and found the only place we noticed a lack of speed was the 84 foot straight. The car zips out of the corners and is fun to drive.

Two things:
If they are more concerned with blowing your doors off they are missing the point of VTA.

Second, if you can change the track layout to something tight and technical, that will put the focus back on driving and move it away from how much boost can i run before i blow up.
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Old 08-16-2009, 04:07 PM   #5664
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Originally Posted by twelvegauge View Post
Yes I am refering to the tekin. You hear some of the guys at the track saying they need more hotwire. My setup is fine for me I can corner and hang with them for a short while but I get tired of hearing them complain when they drive up my ass because I am in their way, and at that time I am usualy at full throttle then blame me for causing a wreck if you are that fast and are a lap ahead go around or give me a chance to move outside. Fuck it who cares it's a parckinglot race anyway.
Not trying to insult you, but have you considered having one of the 'fast' guys run some laps with your car. You may be surprised at the results.

Also, maybe you can borrow a Tekin and really see if it's the equipment. Nobody likes to think it's their driving and set up.
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Old 08-16-2009, 05:32 PM   #5665
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I have raced with good drivers who are fast and guys who are fast, but not particularly good drivers. Usually, the guys who are good drivers and fast seldom have trouble passing me. But, guys who have fast cars but aren't particularly good drivers sometimes like to blame slower cars for their inabilities. A lot of good drivers have told me just drive your line. I usually will take a corner a little wide and they're gone. I don't race TransAm, but it applies to a lot of races whether it's parking lot, carpet or dirt.
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Old 08-16-2009, 09:30 PM   #5666
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I have raced with good drivers who are fast and guys who are fast, but not particularly good drivers. Usually, the guys who are good drivers and fast seldom have trouble passing me. But, guys who have fast cars but aren't particularly good drivers sometimes like to blame slower cars for their inabilities. A lot of good drivers have told me just drive your line. I usually will take a corner a little wide and they're gone. I don't race TransAm, but it applies to a lot of races whether it's parking lot, carpet or dirt.
Same here. I am frequently one of the slower guys in my area. The guys who are the quickest and most experienced will do better around me if I just hold my line and run as hard as I can. If I try to move over for them it just messes up their rythm for a second. So we are all better off if I just run and leave it up to them to find a way around me. I have never been yelled at by the better racers at my track. Even if my run ended up holding them back to some degree.
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Old 08-16-2009, 09:49 PM   #5667
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Guys, the poster did mentioned that he was blown away easily in the straight. So, setup might not be exactly the answer we are necessarily looking for. If he is at the 4.2 gear ratio, assuming the other racer is also, it could be batteries, motor and or ESC. I have seen batteries major differences in batteries for example a guy running a 3200 20C Orion pack blown away by guys running 5000 40C Thunder and SMC packs.

Also, motors make a big difference. I have seen same brand motors coming through the inductance meters with large variation between them. That guy could have been one of those lucky ones with very very good inductance measurement in his motor.

Now, the one that intrigues me the most is ESC. Yes, those Tekin RS speed controllers can adjust the timing very well and provide quite a bit of punch. I have seen them blow away others at the track with same motor/battery combo and the car with the Tekin blows them out of the water. Not just in the VTA (21.5) class but in 13.5 brushless touring class and 17.5 brushless touring class. Those speed controls make a big difference on how many RPMS the motor will pull and control very well the power for the low end torque/punch. I suspect that in his case, it could be any of the three reasons listed above or a combination of any of the 3. Just my 2 cents.
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Old 08-17-2009, 07:26 AM   #5668
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twelvegauge View Post
Yes I am refering to the tekin. You hear some of the guys at the track saying they need more hotwire. My setup is fine for me I can corner and hang with them for a short while but I get tired of hearing them complain when they drive up my ass because I am in their way, and at that time I am usualy at full throttle then blame me for causing a wreck if you are that fast and are a lap ahead go around or give me a chance to move outside. Fuck it who cares it's a parckinglot race anyway.
how many are running advanced timing esc?...the Tekin ,SPX,Ko..ect..these esc's make a huge difference is straight away speeds...we dyno'd these esc's compared to reg/older esc's...and its alot more rpms....which made us set them to 19,000rpm's....some of the advance timing esc's were at double that.here what we did for our club racing....

http://coolspringsracing.com/Rules.html

Electronic Speed Control:
- Max. Brushless RPM <19,000 rpm
- Minimum Gear Ratio required
- No dynamic timing modes allowed

the easiest thing to do is to talk to your other racers to get the field even...

you can also talk with the RD as well...

just make it a point of racing this class is about close door to door racing...

and if you are getting beat on the straight, setup plays very little into it..

check the other things as well, fdr,esc settings and corner speed...but always keep in mind that this class.....

MOST IMPORTANTLY: If it's not in the rules, and does not encompass the spirit of slower, controlled racing with realistic looking cars, consider it illegal. This is called the "Spirit of VTA" Rule. The class is based on slower, equal playing field competition with less traction, minimal aerodynamic aids and mostly older carpet racing technology. The final objective is close, fair, wheel-to-wheel racing for all. All decisions of the race promoter or track owner are final.
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Old 08-17-2009, 07:58 AM   #5669
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DARKSIDE - I am interested in the quote you included in your reply. The quote "slower, equal playing field competition." I was interested in getting involved when it was four cell with stock motors. But, I've watched the 21.5's run and there's nothing slow about them. I know that in some areas they run a sportsman division for VTA. I would like to see more of that. I know the arguments for brushless and lipos.
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Old 08-17-2009, 08:31 AM   #5670
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if you look at our local VTA rules...you can see our solution in keeping our VTA's from looking like touring car rubber...but for the USVTA...I think that technology is going to play its part..4cell/27/17.5 will fade out..only cause of technology...its up to the racers to say.."hey guys we are just as fast as the TCR guys...we should slow it down"...and if someone has a porblem with it, they are depending on pure speed, not setup and driving....trust me Ive tried it both ways..and the slower speeds is what makes VTA different driving experience....

the USVTA has done the best they can do to keep the class from getting turned into another TC class...like keeping the Novak 21.5, as well as changing any of the rules to meet anyones personal needs...lol...but with all the new tech always coming out, its gets harder and harder to keep it at normal VTA speeds...it comes down to the racers and race directors to come up with temparary solutions for their home tracks...until Rob and the USVTA come up with a national solution.

here are some ideas for your local track.....

1.run a mph limit...cheap radar guns....even the toys work well for this...
2.run a higher fdr...some tracks have had success with this..say 5.0 fdr
3.make a break-out class...run a 12 second lap max...11.6 and you loose a lap
4.use a dyno for the advanced timing esc...set it at 19,000 rpm
5.with adv time esc...set it to normal..say the SPX on profile 6 max..7 & 8 are advance timing profiles...
6.and of course ask the other racers to work together

hope this helps cya
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