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Old 04-21-2009, 11:27 PM   #4846
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unless you are going to "TOP LEVEL" races...run the cheapest you can get..and as long as all your other club members do the same...you wont have that problem...

even with my new TC5R/LRP-SPX/Novak 21.5/SMC4000-28c/Futaba 9551 servo/Spectrum micro rx...all new...(2009 USVTA NATS).... Nash/Dirla wont let me run it anyway..lol

but for my club and local racing its back to my RTR TC3/Novak GTX/Trinity 27t/Spectrum rx & servo...oh yeah my trusty 3600 Orion lipo(gear restriction)..

it keeps it fun for everyone...so anybody thats trying to get into it wont be run off by the "really really fast car"...if they see all the cars about the same they will be more than likely to get a low cost HPI Sprint 2 or rtr tc3/4...just talk to the guys at your local tracks and try and keep it even , so you dont lose any Trans-am hopefulls...show them the easy way

and if nothing else...try different divisions...we ran EXPERT,SPORTSMAN,ROOKIE,JR....It worked out great...just keep ppl interested in this class and it will last and grow every race...
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Old 04-22-2009, 07:46 AM   #4847
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Originally Posted by Scottrik View Post
Ho ho ho...don't EVEN get me started on the bill of goods we got sold on LiPo (and brushless in general). Not just VTA, but RC in general.

Remember how we'd be past "battery of the week" wars? Set it and forget it, etc? What a freakin' fantasy some of you lived in.

Now folks are trading up LiPos every bit as fast as they did round cells, except instead of $50-60 per pack they're $120 per pack. "20C, nope, gotta have 25C now. What's that, they've got a 30C? I got a 35C. Man I wish I'd held off another week 'cause now Willy Winner has that hot new 40C battery from XYZ Batteries, I gotta get me wunna them." Ad infinitum.

I sit here laughing my a$$ off. Seriously. It's really sad, but what are you going to do? Cry? I warned folks for 2 years. Bob Stormer (of all people) warned people for two years. And here we are on the treadmill again. Same steps, twice the price. And it ain't going to slow down.

Fact: if my el cheapo Orion 3200's ain't enough I'm good with that.
Maybe it should be added to the rules. Pick a cheaper lipo pack, I guess a 25c rating and call it the standard power for VTA. Of course all those who have already invested in the hottest and newest will go nuts.
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Old 04-22-2009, 10:23 AM   #4848
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Originally Posted by USVTA 'Spirit of VTA' rule
MOST IMPORTANTLY: If it's not in the rules, and does not encompass the spirit of slower, controlled racing with realistic looking cars, consider it illegal. This is called the "Spirit of VTA" Rule. The class is based on slower, equal playing field competition with less traction, minimal aerodynamic aids and mostly older carpet racing technology. The final objective is close, fair, wheel-to-wheel racing for all. All decisions of the race promoter or track owner are final.
The solution to the never ending chase for better equipment is already addressed in the Spirit of VTA rule.

I've had discussions in person and through private messages with various individuals about what the VTA Class should be about. Let's not kid ourselves, there are racers in any class that just approach racing as a win at all cost competition. I believe the best solution to control racers is for the local track or race director to do what it best locally. While it is disappointing that we have not seen more direction from the USVTA as a whole, I personally am not going to wait for anyone else to do what it best for my local track.

Any track can restrict FDR for any motor combo or limit Lipo MAH and still be fully within the USVTA rules. Nothing in the rules states that you must run the best battery or fastest FDR. Locally I'm going to continue to push to keep this class fun, without letting spending or speed spiral out of control.

This Friday I will be racing with my Checkpoint 4900 25c battery that is almost 6 months old running a 5.5-6.0 FDR and I will be having fun. I will probably still make the A-main in a field of 20+ car (7-8 car mains). I will worry more about my driving and setup than what electronics I can buy to go faster.
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Old 04-22-2009, 10:37 AM   #4849
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thanks Brian...thats whats most important...
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Old 04-22-2009, 10:43 AM   #4850
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I guess it depends on your viewpoint. I was good for 2-3 new packs per class per national event. I used to go to 3-4 per season. You see where this is leading. 1 lipo is less than the batteries i was buying for one event, and they are good for many many races. Even if i get a new one, it's still cheaper than multiple nimh packs.

I agree with Scottrik though, anyone who thought everything would magically be equal is kinda goofy. It's still racing.
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Old 04-22-2009, 10:45 AM   #4851
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So what does everybody want? A battery list? That is a serious question.
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Old 04-22-2009, 10:56 AM   #4852
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Originally Posted by IndyRC_Racer View Post
The solution to the never ending chase for better equipment is already addressed in the Spirit of VTA rule.

I've had discussions in person and through private messages with various individuals about what the VTA Class should be about. Let's not kid ourselves, there are racers in any class that just approach racing as a win at all cost competition. I believe the best solution to control racers is for the local track or race director to do what it best locally. While it is disappointing that we have not seen more direction from the USVTA as a whole, I personally am not going to wait for anyone else to do what it best for my local track.

Any track can restrict FDR for any motor combo or limit Lipo MAH and still be fully within the USVTA rules. Nothing in the rules states that you must run the best battery or fastest FDR. Locally I'm going to continue to push to keep this class fun, without letting spending or speed spiral out of control.

This Friday I will be racing with my Checkpoint 4900 25c battery that is almost 6 months old running a 5.5-6.0 FDR and I will be having fun. I will probably still make the A-main in a field of 20+ cars. I will worry more about my driving and setup than what electronics I can buy to go faster.

At the Nats I saw things I thought would never be at a VTA race. Lipo warming, motor coolers, heat guns on tires. But hey it's the Nats right and anything is supposed to go ? Well "NO" the examples should start at the top. I know Doug started this deal and has done alot to try and keep things going, but he has also said many times he's fed up with it too. I think Indy (Brian) is correct in that individual clubs are going to have to start making changes to keep VTA as it was intended to be,a slower entry level class in which to get new people started and see people having fun doing it.

I like the 5.5-6.0 FDR to slow the 21.5 cars down.
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Old 04-22-2009, 11:03 AM   #4853
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I think that for new ppl we should set a new list...or at least promote the cheaper way into the class...when Im asked ...I say Novak Havok and Orion 3200-3800...

but if all else fails ...just let the RD make a call...if the guy is using the lastest greatest...and blowing the field away...then its time to up the FDR...for him..alot of this was a problem at our local track...and a cheap radar gun solved it...24mph is your limit..PERIOD...anything more and you get tech or pulled...it works great and most of the time its just funny to watch guys trying to stay within a limit.....

also...I dont know all the details but we used to run oval Legends cars and you couldnt go faster than "x" amount of seconds per lap...or it would dock you one...its an idea...
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Old 04-22-2009, 11:11 AM   #4854
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okay Im guilty...lipo warming.....heat gun on tires...new car,.....alot of prayer..ect...I was in it to do the very best I could do...and I didnt want my equipment to be at fault...if I did bad it was all on me...now thats for the biggest VTA race in the country/world?.....but for local races...never that...cause our race director will slow you down regardless...lol
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Old 04-22-2009, 11:48 AM   #4855
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I just hope you guys have a better appreciation of what ROAR goes through when making and changing rules.
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Old 04-22-2009, 12:07 PM   #4856
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miket3 View Post
At the Nats I saw things I thought would never be at a VTA race. Lipo warming, motor coolers, heat guns on tires. But hey it's the Nats right and anything is supposed to go ? Well "NO" the examples should start at the top.
I like the 5.5-6.0 FDR to slow the 21.5 cars down.


What driver in the A-main was doing this? I can tell you that I dont think there was a single one in the A-main doing this. If some guy in the B-main was doing this well guess what it didnt seem to help him make the A-main now did it.....that should tell you something right there.

All this complaining about speed and everything else comes from the simple fact that people dont accept that they can and do just flat out get beat by a better driver sometimes.....its going to always be some excuse he has a new ESC or better Lipo. When really your just not that good of a driver....thats part of racing....thats why we do it to have fun and get better at it. If it was easy no one would do it. If you make all the cars the exact same speed and handle the same I would venture to say that most all of the guys in the A-main at the VTA nats will still be in the A-main because they are good drivers.....then what would people complain about???

Going to a higher FDR isnt going to solve anything but make the cars slower and maybe make racing closer.....but the better driver will always be faster....period.
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Old 04-22-2009, 12:18 PM   #4857
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If it was easy no one would do it.
now that statment is downright unamerican!
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Old 04-22-2009, 12:18 PM   #4858
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Hey guys,

Going to start running my TC3 in VTA after it's been sitting on the shelf for many years. Currently, I'm running a 27t with a 25c 3400 . I can't afford to drop money on more equipment, so that's what I'm stuck with right now. What FDR should I run to keep the pace with the standard motor/battery combos?

Thanks,

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Old 04-22-2009, 12:34 PM   #4859
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I had a list of things I'd like to see changed but I'll save that for later. What is good in a way is that each area is doing what is best for their track. But there seems to be some common themes popping up that a lot of tracks are addressing. First and foremost is the speed. I know when the 21.5's first came out we thought the 4.2 FDR was too fast. So we implemented a 5.0 FDR and are talking about going even slower. I think we need to find a way to document some of the changes that tracks are making and compare to look for some common ground.

I'd be willing to compile all the changes people are making and look for common themes, then I could pass that information on to... Rob? Kevin? So just for giggles PM me some of the rule amendments that you have for your track. Include the track name and location so I don't double up. I'll put it all together and let everyone know what is looks like after a week or so. Maybe nothing will come of it but maybe something will. Please PM rather than posting so it doesn't get lost in the thread.
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Old 04-22-2009, 12:39 PM   #4860
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Hey guys,

Going to start running my TC3 in VTA after it's been sitting on the shelf for many years. Currently, I'm running a 27t with a 25c 3400 . I can't afford to drop money on more equipment, so that's what I'm stuck with right now. What FDR should I run to keep the pace with the standard motor/battery combos?

Thanks,

Matt
Well the rules for 27T is a 4 cell Nimh. USvintagetransam.com recommends a 5.4 - 5.7 for use with a 4 cell. Not sure where you would go for 27T/lipo but it would be up from there.
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