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Old 04-07-2009, 05:14 PM   #4681
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Originally Posted by snoopyrc View Post
I cant help but think that some of this equipment myth comes from dogs and screamers. What I mean by that is back in the brushed days you could take twenty stock motors, or for that matter Mabuchi's, and one of them would significantly outperform the rest of them. You would also have a couple of dogs in the bunch. So could the same be said for brushless Novaks and for speed controls? Could one Tekin RS happen to turn out better than the rest of the lot?
Anything is possible.......
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Old 04-07-2009, 05:38 PM   #4682
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I think that we as Trans-am racers just need to pay very close to what got us in this class to begin with...and make sure we keep the door open for new racers that see this as the "BEST" choice of on-road racing out there...I have 2 LRP SPX's and the Tekin RS PRO...neither will I run here locally..even if Nash would allow it..lol...

hope that we can keep the speeds down so new guys see this as "hey thats about my speed"..."where can I get one of those?"...instead of "look they are running touring car with cool bodies"....IMO....

so leave it up to the race director and lets move on....I plan on getting better at lines and passing to return next year to the 2010 USVTA NATS and get the "A" main finish....it might be closer than we think...hummmmm
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Old 04-07-2009, 06:06 PM   #4683
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My 2 cents:
I hear all this about the 'esc dilema' going back and forth better or not etc.
I honestly don't mind if it is or is not going to be 'marginally' different. If you really want to nit pick, any newer style chassis will be 'Marginally' better. Lower CG helps a ton .. period, along with improved geometry etc.

I've been around racing for quite a while and what a lot of people over look in speed is drag. Clean bearings, proper belt tensions etc etc (you get the point). Less drag would give you more acceleration and top speed over any dyno spec'd motor could ever make up for. With everything being equal, a good rolling chassis, (and as I read earlier here) a newer esc, newer motor etc all make for a faster car. Cleaning the bearings in the motor help it spool faster also. A fast guy goes through everything!!! Period.

So ask yourself when you see someone blow past you. How clean and free is your equipement? How efficient is the handling when you corner and carry speed out of a corner? There are a ton of variables.

What I personally like about the class is the standard equipement. Same tires, same body and motor!!
I've raced a long time at different tracks where I had to carry different tires not knowing what would be fast at their track. Not anymore!!

New bodies would come out several times a season. The 'gotta have body for this track to be fast' crap.

Packing different motors to be competitive also. Torque motors & high RPM, extra brushes, extra springs, comm lathe after a few runs etc.

4 battery packs etc. to be competitive - preferably matched of course!!

So now we worry about an ESC... even if there is a difference - it is still cheaper (and cooler) with these rules!!

GO TA!! (stepping of podium now)
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Old 04-07-2009, 07:08 PM   #4684
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For the T/A nats I ran a shaft drive Tamiya Evo 5 (first day out with that car....my normal VTA ride is a TA05R) with a original non lipo cutoff Novak GTB, older black ring Novak 21.5, and a IP5000 lipo(I normally run a Orion 3800 in the 05R). In the qualifiers I thought I was getting out run because of the newer speedo's, but in reality, by time the mains and the 50 lapper came around I did a small gear ratio change(4.49 final drive)and a slight chassis adjustment and went from a 10.7 fast lap to a 10.3 fast lap with a 10.5-10.6 average lap. Just goes to show that a little tuning goes a long way......too bad it was too late by time I figured it out to make the A, but I ended up in the B(with some of the best racers I've ever ran with). For the 50 lapper the car was pretty dialed and I ended up 2nd to Brad and there were alot of other very good cars in that race. I found out first hand that it's real easy to jump on the "gotta have that" band wagon, but really all the speed in the world doesn't help when you're upside down in the infield for 5 seconds from nipping a cardboard berm in a corner. I still believe that set up and driving is the major factor, not so much the equipment.
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Old 04-09-2009, 10:57 PM   #4685
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bump...I had fun too
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Old 04-10-2009, 11:37 AM   #4686
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In hindsight, the track layout at the VTA Nats was a nice equalizer. It really rewarded the consistant or careful driver and penalized the driver who over-drove the layout. Top speed wasn't the key due to a tight chicane at the entrance to the straight and a number of 180 turns.

It was a fun layout to drive.
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Old 04-10-2009, 11:56 AM   #4687
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National setup:
Qualified 2nd in the B-main with this set up. Hope it helps as sometimes it's difficult to understand why the fast guys do what they do. This is a standard set up where I only change droop and upper link positions based on traction.

Rough driving:
Some were pointing out how rough the A and B main driving was at the Nationals a few days ago. The general response was "so what, it's more fun than TC." Most people recognized how bad it was after the first leg and calmed down a bit in the 2nd and 3rd. But it was still pretty rough. I was wanting to see more artistic passing instead of the bump and run.

Sorry Brad for the couple of hacks in the super main - The Vessel put me up to it...

Programable ESC's:
I agree with SpdJunk. VTA has a lot less stuff to worry about to be competitive.

The great ESC debate really only affects one level of driver. The fast guys are going to be fast no matter what they use and they will always tell you its about car set up and practice. Although true, not relevant sometimes because cars are set up based on how the drivers like the feel.

The beginners won't see a performance increase with a programable ESC because they are still learning to control their corner speed and will often overdrive a corner with a faster car.

The moderate level driver is the guy that will absolutely see better perfomance with a programable. Since I've switched, I get more straight speed while remaining constant in the infield due to the lower FRD and massive timing increase. Because of the higher speeds, I'm learning a lot more about car set up to keep it planted.

So really, I think the ESC debate should die becasue it's just one factor in faster times. And if there is a real discrepancy in speed, you can always dial it down.

Have fun.
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Old 04-10-2009, 12:06 PM   #4688
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Have fun.
"Bobby Awesome"

Ha!
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Old 04-10-2009, 01:48 PM   #4689
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Originally Posted by IndyRC_Racer View Post
In hindsight, the track layout at the VTA Nats was a nice equalizer. It really rewarded the consistant or careful driver and penalized the driver who over-drove the layout. Top speed wasn't the key due to a tight chicane at the entrance to the straight and a number of 180 turns.

It was a fun layout to drive.
Sounds like perhaps it served as an equalizer re: any potential advantage of one bl esc vs. another, but further sounds like a track TAILOR MADE to give 2s LiPo/21.5 a further distinct advantage over anyone trying to run a 4-cell setup. Limit the top speed on the straightaway (thus negate the FDR limitation...makes it a non-issue, or at least less of one) and make the head of the straight a location where the added punch of the higher voltage pulls the gap on a 4-cell car which it then has less effective straight to try and make up.

Not sure why the charade is maintained...it's become laughable. Go ahead and follow ROAR's lead and kill the 4-cell combos for official USVTA racing. Clubs can (and, I'm sure, we will) continue with the option, but for USVTA it's had the stake run through it's little round cell heart.
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Old 04-10-2009, 02:13 PM   #4690
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Cool logo!

SCrolling down your homepage I see you run with multiple track directors. How is that working out? How is it organized and what are your track director's duties?
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Old 04-10-2009, 02:19 PM   #4691
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"Bobby Awesome"

Ha!
Crap. I forgot that was in there. Just a little local track joke...
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Old 04-10-2009, 02:20 PM   #4692
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Sounds like perhaps it served as an equalizer re: any potential advantage of one bl esc vs. another, but further sounds like a track TAILOR MADE to give 2s LiPo/21.5 a further distinct advantage over anyone trying to run a 4-cell setup. Limit the top speed on the straightaway (thus negate the FDR limitation...makes it a non-issue, or at least less of one) and make the head of the straight a location where the added punch of the higher voltage pulls the gap on a 4-cell car which it then has less effective straight to try and make up.

Not sure why the charade is maintained...it's become laughable. Go ahead and follow ROAR's lead and kill the 4-cell combos for official USVTA racing. Clubs can (and, I'm sure, we will) continue with the option, but for USVTA it's had the stake run through it's little round cell heart.
Yeah, that's the line of thinking, "what can we do to make sure 4 cell won't be competitive?".
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Old 04-10-2009, 02:22 PM   #4693
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What I want to know about VTA is what tracks inforce the rules. I know there isn't a whole lot that goes into VTA and I dont care what you run its all on you driving for what laps you will get. my best lap on our track has been a 14.4 2s 4800 saddle pack Lipo with the Novak Havoc 21.5 the owner of our LHS/Track takes the controles and 2nd lap he turns a 13.0 yes Lipo has a advantage but do your tracks weigh the cars? Im not trying to start a flame war. I know im Legal last time I weighed in I was 1476g how many racers do you think are under it. intentionaly or not that makes a world of diffrence
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Old 04-10-2009, 02:26 PM   #4694
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Sounds like perhaps it served as an equalizer re: any potential advantage of one bl esc vs. another, but further sounds like a track TAILOR MADE to give 2s LiPo/21.5 a further distinct advantage over anyone trying to run a 4-cell setup. Limit the top speed on the straightaway (thus negate the FDR limitation...makes it a non-issue, or at least less of one) and make the head of the straight a location where the added punch of the higher voltage pulls the gap on a 4-cell car which it then has less effective straight to try and make up.

Not sure why the charade is maintained...it's become laughable. Go ahead and follow ROAR's lead and kill the 4-cell combos for official USVTA racing. Clubs can (and, I'm sure, we will) continue with the option, but for USVTA it's had the stake run through it's little round cell heart.
I doubt that was anyone's thought at all. Very nice people at this event put in alot of time and patientce to make sure everyone was well taken care of.

I do think the cars are much faster now than the class was initially intended to be, but what do you do at this point ?
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Old 04-10-2009, 02:27 PM   #4695
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Cool logo!

SCrolling down your homepage I see you run with multiple track directors. How is that working out? How is it organized and what are your track director's duties?
Thanks--the logo is new this year. One of our members, Shawn Kiely (Big Fin Graphics) is a professional graphic artist (really an artist who pays the bills doing graphic arts professionally--does all HeliProz graphics stuff the last several months) so something like this was really almost child's play for him. I wish like heck I had any artistic sense at all.

The "race director for a day" is an idea I brought here from my days racing 1/8 onroad with the Seattle Area Radio Control Auto Racers (SARCAR). They required that anyone running for club points had to sign up to race direct for a day during the season--which spreads the load out across the membership a bit. We adopted the same process this year to similar effect. The only real difference is that we allow the racers who are signed up for the day (there were always at least two) to race ONE class that day but they had to be in different classes where with SARCAR you plain did not race that day.

The Race Director is responsible for keeping the race management (RC Scoring Pro / AMB here) going and keeping the schedule moving. The system is set up by yours truly most race days and the Director for a Day is coached through the racer entry process, etc. For next year we are going to implement a list of activities for day's end that must be completed before the Director departs (sweep floor after carpet is picked up, take the trash bags out to the dumpster, etc) for the day.

The system has worked out pretty well. Not perfectly, but pretty well. The old "same guy(s) run the show every single race event for years on end" system HAD to go as it was a sure-fire recipe for burnout. This way JP and Bryan (and, to a much lesser degree, me) get to spend time working on our cars and visiting with folks rather than being tied to the computer.

The "stick" is simple. Your points do not count for the season championship if you do not do your day.
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