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Old 03-21-2009, 08:14 PM   #4546
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Speaking of history, what happened to the rules in 1973? 1972 was chock full of Camaros, Mustangs, Javelins and Firebirds?
The manufacturers (other than AMC) all pulled their financial support out of the TA series after the 1970 season, and AMC pulled out after 1971. The series was, basically, on life-support through 1972 with smaller fields of hand-me-down cars racing in front of ever-smaller crowds.

Politically, let's see.

We were in a recession coupled with high inflation...the president enacted price freezes as an attempt to mitigate inflation.

Muscle car sales were WAY down due to a variety of factors (fuel, insurance, market saturation, etc).

In the midst of declining sales and a recessionary economy the big three were having to implement the "next" (and far more encompassing) round of safety and emissions improvements. 1973 saw the first real "bumpers" on cars and 1974 saw the catalytic converter.

OPEC flexed their muscle and we saw the oil market in tremendous upheaval resulting in heretofore unheard of prices which combined with supply disruption to create LONG lines at the pumps and not everybody getting gas.

We were enmeshed in a war we could not "win" that our leadership couldn't seem to get us out of.

The economic situtation saw sponsorship dollars (such as there were at the time) AND fan attendance dwindle.

A new series created by defecting leaders of SCCA had been created and was drawing away competitor and fan base. The upstart series was called IMSA and was created by folks FOR the racers to make better economic sense--rationalized rules structure, better payout, etc.

Hey...how much of this sounds familiar? The more things change the more they stay the same.

In the midst of all this, Porsche was willing to spend money in the series if it was massaged a bit to make their cars more competitive. GM was willing to put some money/development behind the Corvette, etc.

The effect IMSA had was tremendous. There was a GREAT advantage to accepting cars that were running in the IMSA series. This gave manufacturers more incentive to invest and develop cars, gave racers more opportunity to use those cars, etc.

And on and on.
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Old 03-21-2009, 08:35 PM   #4547
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Some obvious differences. A 27t, 6 cells running a 7.2 ratio will smoke a 27t with 4 cells. A 17.5 w/ 2c Lipos will definitely smoke a 21.5 /lipos AND no fdr restrictions. Thats my point. Many of us who have been involved with stock class racing felt it was way out of hand. Again...RCGT is a great idea but why not spec the motor/esc/fdr so it's more competitive and more attractive for a broader audience. I already realise that there will be people who dont like VTA simply because we can't run a Skyline body. I like RCGT but have had enough experience to know what happens when the rules are that loose.
On the other hand...as a club we could run our own rules as long as we have no intention of having a sanctioned RCGT program.
OK, I can't really say anything more than what I said above. I just don't see how anyone could see 17.5 stock-class racing as "way out of hand" -- that just baffles me. It's just a tick faster than 21.5. The RCGT rules are just as tight as USVTA -- why do you call them "that loose"?

If you don't think it's competitive and attractive to a broad audience you've obviously never been to a race. We have had 65 RCGT entries at a single race with everyone from pros to complete noobs running and loving it.

I'm not trying to take anything away from USVTA, a class I love. I was just trying to clarify RCGT for you but you obviously aren't interested.
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Old 03-21-2009, 09:27 PM   #4548
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I get your point. I hope it all works out. Those of us who've been there are a little jaded I guess. Either way, these 2 classes seem to be on the rise and lets hope it continues.
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Old 03-21-2009, 10:15 PM   #4549
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I don't get it. Running the '67 Corvette body would be a travesty but suddenly mini chassis with foreign bodies are totally reasonable?
I agree.....

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The "foreign bodies" were actually run in the Trans Am (in a small displacement division of the class) series throughout the late 60s. There isn't anything inconsistent about the concept at all.
Really the 60' Mustangs that are "legal" were not legal in TA way back then too yet they are allowed to race now. I think the 60' stangs raced the 60' vettes did they not in GT or what ever it was.

Personally I would say that any of the 60's Vettes or Nova or any other car like that that wants to run in VTA should be allowed. It would be cool to see all these old race cars on the track at one time in one class. Because really the Mustangs that we are using were not raced in TA so whats the diff.

Was the Cuda really raced in TA too?
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Old 03-22-2009, 06:38 AM   #4550
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It would be cool to see all these old race cars on the track at one time in one class.
I like this idea! That's all my point has been. That, and I consider the 240Z as allowable as it is from the same era (even though it would initiate the new era!).
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Old 03-22-2009, 07:56 AM   #4551
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Ok, so then where do you draw the line? Foreign cars? Mini chassis? NASCAR stock car bodies? Step-side pickup trucks? Bolink Legends?


Forget I even mentioned the U2.5 class.
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Old 03-22-2009, 08:57 AM   #4552
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Forget I even mentioned the U2.5 class.
Don't tell me you weren't expecting this kind of reaction....
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Old 03-22-2009, 09:13 AM   #4553
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Angry

There has been over a year in this thread of people complaining that there weren't enough body options, and page after page of people commenting about how the vintage import sedans being infused into T/A somehow.

And now when the idea is proposed, it's somehow everything that goes against all that is holy in Vintage Trans Am racing? Or, now why can't I use a Corvette or a Daytona/Superbird in Trans Am?





New ideas are met with such force and resistance that it's amazing any change happens at all for anyone. And when something has stability and consistency, and is being built strong for the long haul, everyone gets up in arms that it isn't evolving enough for their own needs.

R/C racers are the biggest bunch of complainers and whiners that I have ever dealt with—bar none. Everyone just needs something to bitch about. No one is ever happy, no one is ever content. No wonder tracks can't stay open for longer than a couple of seasons. R/C racers suck the life and fun out of everything they come in contact with.




Anyone else want to run this goat rodeo? I've just about had it. I'm sure there are plenty of people who think they could do it better...




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Last edited by squarehead; 03-22-2009 at 10:50 AM.
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Old 03-22-2009, 10:19 AM   #4554
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We're all certified genius'. Grown men with toy cars = Drama
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Old 03-22-2009, 10:21 AM   #4555
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There has been over a year in this thread of people complaining that there weren't enough body options, and page after page of people commenting about how the vintage import sedans being infused into T/A somehow.

And now when the idea is proposed, it's somehow everything that goes against all that is holy in Vintage Trans Am racing? Or, now why can't I use a Corvette or a Daytona Superbird in Trans Am?





New ideas are met with such force and resistance that it's amazing any change happens at all for anyone. And when something has stability and consistency, and is being built strong for the long haul, everyone gets up in arms that it isn't evolving enough for their own needs.

R/C racers are the biggest bunch of complainers and whiners that I have ever dealt with—bar none. Everyone just needs something to bitch about. No one is ever happy, no one is ever content. No wonder tracks can't stay open for longer than a couple of seasons. R/C racers suck the life and fun out of everything they come in contact with.




Anyone else want to run this goat rodeo? I've just about had it. I'm sure there are plenty of people who think they could do it better...




This class is great!!! it is good fo RC. To answer your question, "NO" you can not quit this goat rodoe. I dont want a few bad apples changing the rules. This is what got me back into RC after a 20 year break. It took one night of watching, two minutes of driving a racers car that night, and talking to the racers and I was hooked again. My point is, dont let a few get you down, there are hundreds of racers that love this class. This class is not about money spent its about set-up and driving. That is what racing is about. So everybody shut-up and go work on your car.
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Old 03-22-2009, 10:21 AM   #4556
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see you went and made him mad. It wouldn't be so bad if he wasn't right. Im personally thinking about trying the HPI club 240. in regular local VTA. Just for testing. If it doesn't pan out I will keep and enjoy the car.
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Old 03-22-2009, 12:55 PM   #4557
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Ok, so then where do you draw the line? Foreign cars? Mini chassis? NASCAR stock car bodies? Step-side pickup trucks? Bolink Legends?


Forget I even mentioned the U2.5 class.
Simple, 1970's is the border and they have to have competed in SCCA road racing. You won't have trucks or mini chassis or NASCAR bodies - just vintage cars.
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Old 03-22-2009, 01:49 PM   #4558
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Don't you go anywhere Apex !! Some of us are completely happy with VTA just the way it is. I'm sure we all wish the companies who make bodies would increase our selection. Thats not VTA's fault. Look at it this way.....if WE make VTA work then they might see the demand and build them.
As for the infusion of the smaller wheelbase "mini" chassis and the applicable bodies...I think I've stated my interest. Allow them as a second class, keep the VTA motor standards. That simple.
This is a great program.....we're the only ones who will screw it up with a lot of infighting.
Apex...stick to your guns Man....I've seen it written and stated that VTA knows people want many things from RC racing and VTA may not be their cup of tea...no problem...there are other classes they can race to meet their needs. Keep fightin the good fight and thanks for even considering the "mini" chassis suggestions.
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Old 03-22-2009, 02:04 PM   #4559
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BTW...we had our first experience with VTA today and had a blast. It was shortlived due to the rain which didnt exist according to local weather forecasters but I was genuinely impressed regarding the motor selection. We had brushless and brushed motors and nobody seemed unhappy about the speeds. Very manageable but fast enough to get some good close racing going.
We did decide to alternate our racedays between pure TA bodies/wheels and RCGT bodies/wheels BUT we will continue to use the VTA motor/battery/fdr rules. Best of both worlds.
There you go Spngr....You may now order that 240z body from ABC ! And I'll be doin my 240sx up in BRE colors.
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Old 03-22-2009, 02:26 PM   #4560
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I'm one of the guys running with EvoRacer... it was a blast! I was running an HPI Pro 4 with the 21.5 option. While i was faster down the straight, other guys were quicker on the infield due to better set-up.

So, i gotta work on my set up and driving skills and SLOW DOWN... then i'll be able to keep up.

@ Apex: Your rules are well thought out and well executed. People will always complain. They can go somewhere else. The vocal minority will always be a pain in the buttocks. The vocal majority are the people you really need to pay attention to.
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