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Old 03-10-2009, 05:17 PM   #4411
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So where do you draw the line when sponsored drivers who are already racing in this class (who are usually very good drivers) are running the best chassis, batteries, and electronics? The question that invariably gets asked is "If that equipment isn't better, then why is the <insert fast driver name here> running it?" If it is all about driving, then good drivers should be able to win with a Trinity Street Weapon or an original HPI RS4.

What is so wrong about putting a limit on what type of equipment is being run in this class. Are we so afraid of upsetting a few drivers that they may drop out of this class? I know this isn't the case because I've seen numerous posts suggesting that this may not be the class for some racers.

I'm not suggesting that we should run the cheapest available equipment or limit the class to 1 manufacturer of batteries or speed control. However, allowing any new speed control is short-sighted in my opinion. When driver's feel the need to spend more money on new technology to be competitive, then it never helps any class.

Again if driving is the most important thing in this class what kind of equipment are you running? For the record I'm running a tub TC3 chassis, LRP TC speed control, Team Checkpoint 4900, and Futaba 3PK with FM receiver (non-PCM).
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Old 03-10-2009, 05:21 PM   #4412
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I'm running a tub TB-02, Havoc ESC, Yeah 3200, and Futaba 3PM. I don't win either though.

I've been keeping my mouth shut a bit, but I own 2 Tekin RS ESCs that I run 17.5 and 13.5 sedans with and they made a significant difference in those classes.
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Old 03-10-2009, 05:33 PM   #4413
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There already is a limit on equipment - no batteries over 5000 mAh

TC4, LRP TC speed control, Orion 4800, and DX3R for what it's worth...
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Old 03-10-2009, 06:08 PM   #4414
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For what its worth.....this fall when I switched over to the 21.5/lipo combo I really struggled with my car. I went to a few races and was off the pace then over the winter I started to go faster. I'm still running the same car Schumacher Mi3, battery Orion 3800, Motor and ESC Speed passion GT1.1...its all what I had when I stopped racing regular sedan minus the motor. From then until now my car has gotten faster a lot faster.....it wasn't anything electronic. It was chassis setup time that made the biggest change in my lap times....not anything electronic. I have been past on the straight by guys with GTB's(non timing adjustable) but I end up pulling away in the infield. I feel it comes down more to you getting your car working good then any ESC will be able to make.

Racers need to stop thinking that there is some unfair or other wise advantage to some new electronic gizmo when in the end if you cant drive the car cleanly for 5 or 8 minutes it doesn't matter anyway honestly. You the driver/racer are the end result if you can get your car working good and drive well none of these "advantages" matter. Heck at big series race a racer left his battery next to a window and it was really cold which if you believe everything you read would be the worst thing ever. You know what his car was just as fast with the lipo chilled.....so don't believe all the hype people like to propagate the internet with.
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Old 03-10-2009, 06:37 PM   #4415
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin K View Post
For what its worth.....this fall when I switched over to the 21.5/lipo combo I really struggled with my car. I went to a few races and was off the pace then over the winter I started to go faster. I'm still running the same car Schumacher Mi3, battery Orion 3800, Motor and ESC Speed passion GT1.1...its all what I had when I stopped racing regular sedan minus the motor. From then until now my car has gotten faster a lot faster.....it wasn't anything electronic. It was chassis setup time that made the biggest change in my lap times....not anything electronic. I have been past on the straight by guys with GTB's(non timing adjustable) but I end up pulling away in the infield. I feel it comes down more to you getting your car working good then any ESC will be able to make.

Racers need to stop thinking that there is some unfair or other wise advantage to some new electronic gizmo when in the end if you cant drive the car cleanly for 5 or 8 minutes it doesn't matter anyway honestly. You the driver/racer are the end result if you can get your car working good and drive well none of these "advantages" matter. Heck at big series race a racer left his battery next to a window and it was really cold which if you believe everything you read would be the worst thing ever. You know what his car was just as fast with the lipo chilled.....so don't believe all the hype people like to propagate the internet with.
I agree, how your car is set up & how you drive will be a MUCH bigger factor than having the latest & greatest ESC's or batteries. I noticed some good examples of this at the Novak race in Janurary, we had a BIG VTA class(around 42 cars, if my memory serves), & almost EVERYONE I know of was using the 21.5/LiPo combo. And there were just as many fast guys running GTB's as there were Tekin RS Pros or other adjustable timing ESC's. In fact, had I not made as many mistakes in my best qualifier as I did(I kept banging against one barrier after the sweeper for 6 or seven laps before I finally pulled my head out & got in rythym, cost me from a third to a half lap in time lost & momentum wasted), I would have made the A Main with the original GTB I've had for some time(& in a Tamiya 415MSX, an older car I pulled out of retirement for VTA). Having the best ESC won't help you if you make mistakes like I did at the Novak race, none were huge ones, just enough to lose momentum, which is be FAR the most important thing in any kind of spec racing. So I'd go ahead & get started with what you have, & just focus on refining your setup & driving, & on having fun(which I'm still doing, though I still wish someone like Protoform would make a REALLY GOOD LOOKING '69-70 Mustang Boss 302, then I'd be in heaven)....
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Old 03-10-2009, 07:07 PM   #4416
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I just switched from 4 cell/brushed to 21.5 Lipo about 3 weeks ago. I race TA once a week.

As many of you know I race direct at our track. What the 21.5/lipo has done for me is advance me up within our regular pack of racers about 4-5 people in terms of usual finishing times. That happened because I wasn't spending time at the track during a race day futzing with my round batteries and cutting motors and running the races but instead had time to actually work on my tuning skillz. The last three weeks I made changes to my car that have made me a better driver. When I initially installed the 21.5 and did nothing to my tuning I was turning about .3 of a second faster laps than I was with the brushed motor. Little changes from tires to droop to camber is what has gotten me about 1 second faster than I was before.
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Old 03-10-2009, 08:03 PM   #4417
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Thanks, this is all good information.

It seems that my questions are being answered with a "don't worry about speed until you learn to set up a car and drive" perspective from the faster guys - and that's great. I believe those opinions to be correct and should help many drivers getting started in VTA.

What if I already know how to do both of those and get marshaled about once or twice a race day? That makes me lean more towards IndyRC's camp.

If I drove two identical RDX's - one with a Tekin RS with computer programmed settings and one with my SS5800 - on an open track during practice. Would I turn identical laps or would the Tekin car be faster?

Again, not wanting to spark a giant poo flinging argument. All of your comments have helped me understand why I like VTA so much. I've always liked stock and spec classes because I think they teach you how to drive better.

So I'm going to use my current equipment, learn to drive even better, and do a lot of blocking

See you in Chicago.
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Old 03-10-2009, 08:47 PM   #4418
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwoods34 View Post
There already is a limit on equipment - no batteries over 5000 mAh
Awww Man! You mean Im gonna have to charge my battery up again on raceday??? I was hoping I could just charge it once and be done with all that.
All kidding aside, isnt 5000mAh way more than you can use with a 21.5? I think I'm going to add lights to my next shell, and fans, Lots of fans. Maybe a couple blowing out the back to help push the car along.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin K View Post
Racers need to stop thinking that there is some unfair or other wise advantage to some new electronic gizmo when in the end if you cant drive the car cleanly for 5 or 8 minutes it doesn't matter anyway honestly. You the driver/racer are the end result if you can get your car working good and drive well none of these "advantages" matter. Heck at big series race a racer left his battery next to a window and it was really cold which if you believe everything you read would be the worst thing ever. You know what his car was just as fast with the lipo chilled.....so don't believe all the hype people like to propagate the internet with.
Now this is good stuff!

Sorry guys I'm in a mood tonight.
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Old 03-10-2009, 09:35 PM   #4419
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Default ...just finished reading the thread...

all 4118 posts...must eat...must sleep...need shower...eyes bleeding...but I found a new mantra in the secret subliminal messages hidden therein:

See Dick read 4k posts. See Dick ask about why don't you change the rules to include any manufacturer's 21.5 brushless motor. See Dick's head explode (insert scene from Scanners here). Don't be a, well, you know the rest...


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Old 03-10-2009, 10:19 PM   #4420
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChattyMatty View Post
all 4118 posts...must eat...must sleep...need shower...eyes bleeding...
Congrats! You are now a part of the grizzled USVTA thread crowd and have street cred.
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Old 03-10-2009, 10:31 PM   #4421
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Do you guys think that they will change the rule where you have to run a 21.5 novak so you can run other motors? JK! For real though, since everybody is running 21.5 lipo will you guys drop the gear cap so everyone doesn't have to get the same speedo. Speedo's are big with brushless.
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Old 03-10-2009, 10:40 PM   #4422
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During practice at Hobbyplex the 21.5 lipo trans-am run as fast as the 1/12 running 17.5 nimh in the straights.

Trans-am should not be as fast as stock 12th scale. It seem that the higher speed of trans-am hurting the class not helping.
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Old 03-10-2009, 10:48 PM   #4423
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChattyMatty View Post
all 4118 posts...must eat...must sleep...need shower...eyes bleeding...but I found a new mantra in the secret subliminal messages hidden therein:

See Dick read 4k posts. See Dick ask about why don't you change the rules to include any manufacturer's 21.5 brushless motor. See Dick's head explode (insert scene from Scanners here). Don't be a, well, you know the rest...


-Cheers...Friday's payday, Saturday's playday with new toys!
If you read all that then I have to apologize for some of my past behavior. Now that you are up to speed, dont ever go back there again.

Hey I have an idea, POP QUIZ!!!!!!!
1. Is the 21.5 lipo really faster than the 27t/4cell powerplant?
2. Is the HPI Pantera shell legal?
3. Why dont they allow the other 21.5 motors to run in VTA?
4. Which brands of Touring car chassis are legal?
5. If you wear your treads down to a slick, are your tires still legal?

OK thats enough punishment for now.
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Old 03-11-2009, 06:26 AM   #4424
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1. No, they both have their advnatages and disadvantages.
2. No, it never raced in the SCCA trans am class. Nor did the Corvette.
3. Novak had the only real 21.5 when the option was being tested AND it was also embraced by the Oval guys in the BRL so it had some street cred for VTA.
4. Any 4WD drive TC chassis is legal, although some think the shaft drive cars have an advantage.
5. Tire tread issues are at the discretion of the race director although "worn slicks" are frowned upon.

How'd i do Teach?

Quote:
Originally Posted by snoopyrc View Post
If you read all that then I have to apologize for some of my past behavior. Now that you are up to speed, dont ever go back there again.

Hey I have an idea, POP QUIZ!!!!!!!
1. Is the 21.5 lipo really faster than the 27t/4cell powerplant?
2. Is the HPI Pantera shell legal?
3. Why dont they allow the other 21.5 motors to run in VTA?
4. Which brands of Touring car chassis are legal?
5. If you wear your treads down to a slick, are your tires still legal?

OK thats enough punishment for now.
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Old 03-11-2009, 08:16 AM   #4425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snoopyrc View Post
If you read all that then I have to apologize for some of my past behavior. Now that you are up to speed, dont ever go back there again.

Hey I have an idea, POP QUIZ!!!!!!!
1. Is the 21.5 lipo really faster than the 27t/4cell powerplant?
2. Is the HPI Pantera shell legal?
3. Why dont they allow the other 21.5 motors to run in VTA?
4. Which brands of Touring car chassis are legal?
5. If you wear your treads down to a slick, are your tires still legal?

OK thats enough punishment for now.
1. By at least 4 seconds per lap.
2. No - only Mazda 6, DNA 2, and T-Maxx bodies are legal
3. It would make Bob Novak angry.
4. Only Team Magic.
5. Yes, but you're better off just starting with Jaco Blues anyway.


Sorry, sarcasm is the only form of humor I know.
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