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Old 03-09-2009, 09:27 PM   #4396
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Default Programable Speed controllers

Hey all,

I'm pretty new here, but have been racing VTA for the last few months and really like it.

My intention here is not to pick a fight or get people defensive. I'm just trying to get some information so I can make a decision on getting one of these new programmable speedos for VTA to run in Chicago in April. I currently run a SS5800 with my 21.5 in a 4-5 year old RDX. I can't afford another $200.

So the loaded question is: Do I need one to compete? If I don't have one should I not bother to race in April?

I'm told that with equal driving skill, and equal car set ups, a person with a Tekin RS or Sphere will blow me away because of the massive amounts of timing the other guy can put in his motor.

These new speedos seem to make the FDR rules irrelevant. I’m very concerned about where the class is headed and although the new technology is impressive, I think it is going to hurt VTA if not regulated to slow the cars down.

Do you guys see motor/battery/speedo rule changes or additions in the future?
Do you see lowering the FDR rules for people with programmables?

Thanks for your help and opinions.
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Old 03-10-2009, 12:03 AM   #4397
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Originally Posted by xevias View Post
So the loaded question is: Do I need one to compete? If I don't have one should I not bother to race in April?

I'm told that with equal driving skill, and equal car set ups, a person with a Tekin RS or Sphere will blow me away because of the massive amounts of timing the other guy can put in his motor.

These new speedos seem to make the FDR rules irrelevant. I’m very concerned about where the class is headed and although the new technology is impressive, I think it is going to hurt VTA if not regulated to slow the cars down.
IMHO I think anyone saying "blow me away" is overstating it a bit. I have an RS now, but used to run a Novak SS+. Although I like the RS very much and do think it helps some, it will still come down to not making mistakes and negotiating traffic. I was around mid pack last year at the USVTA Nats... not having an RS would not stop me from going back this year.
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Old 03-10-2009, 05:12 AM   #4398
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Originally Posted by xevias View Post
Hey all,

I'm pretty new here, but have been racing VTA for the last few months and really like it.

My intention here is not to pick a fight or get people defensive. I'm just trying to get some information so I can make a decision on getting one of these new programmable speedos for VTA to run in Chicago in April. I currently run a SS5800 with my 21.5 in a 4-5 year old RDX. I can't afford another $200.

So the loaded question is: Do I need one to compete? If I don't have one should I not bother to race in April?

I'm told that with equal driving skill, and equal car set ups, a person with a Tekin RS or Sphere will blow me away because of the massive amounts of timing the other guy can put in his motor.

These new speedos seem to make the FDR rules irrelevant. I’m very concerned about where the class is headed and although the new technology is impressive, I think it is going to hurt VTA if not regulated to slow the cars down.

Do you guys see motor/battery/speedo rule changes or additions in the future?
Do you see lowering the FDR rules for people with programmables?

Thanks for your help and opinions.

Two Opinions:
1. Allot of the speed controls are going to some form of timing adjustment. Tekin RS's, Losi Xceleron's, Speed Passions,Castle's,and the new LRP's have different throtlle profiles with different power levels. So allot of manufacturer's are going this way it appears so I don't know how you would control it.

2. I know of only one brand brushless motor that you can't adjust the timing and by the official rules it is not even allowed. I already have my legal Novak and I don't want them to change the motor rules disallowing adjustable motors.


Lastly, I don't think the speed control will make a huge difference. I know it doesn't help me win, I already had a Tekin RS for Off-Road and I wanted to stay with the same brand. From what I noticed on On-Road, your not going to win the race in the straight portions, the infield in where the race is won or lost at least on our track

www.mikeshobbyshop.com

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Old 03-10-2009, 06:20 AM   #4399
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2. I know of only one brand brushless motor that you can't adjust the timing and by the official rules it is not even allowed. I already have my legal Novak and I don't want them to change the motor rules disallowing adjustable motors.
Just to clarify, the official USVTA rules state that advancing the timing is allowed.

I do agree though that the ESC is not the deal breaker. Driving better is the way to be up front, plain and simple.
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Old 03-10-2009, 06:59 AM   #4400
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ESCs are impossible to control or police with the class already well over a year in existence. Yes, a good one might give you an advantage in certain situations, however, I really don't think it will matter unless you are at the very pointy end of the grid. If you're battling for the win on the last lap on April 5th, you're probably in a better position with one of the newer pro model ESCs, but at that point, those guys are probably all using them anyway.


Don't fret, it isn't going to ruin your VTA experience in the least.
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Old 03-10-2009, 08:23 AM   #4401
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I dont mean to step on anyones toes but VTA is supposed to be relaxed enough that you shouldnt stress about something like that. Not that you shouldnt want to be competitive. Its OK too if you just like the Tekin because you like nice gear. I like nice stuff even though any of my friends can take my old crap and dust me with it.
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Old 03-10-2009, 08:41 AM   #4402
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Originally Posted by Evoracer View Post
Thanks. I guess I might as well start pitching the program now. We're in Palm Bay, Florida
You should start your own thread in the Florida racing area here on rctech if you haven't already done so.

http://www.rctech.net/forum/florida-racing-54/
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Old 03-10-2009, 08:44 AM   #4403
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You guys are getting mellow in your old age. I was attacked viciously when I innocently asked about advancing motor timing a bunch of pages back.
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Old 03-10-2009, 09:48 AM   #4404
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You should start your own thread in the Florida racing area here on rctech if you haven't already done so.

http://www.rctech.net/forum/florida-racing-54/
It's coming ! We'll give it a little time to get our thoughts organised and then start posting. Thanks for the support. We'll try and get some pics when we meet up in a couple of weeks.
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Old 03-10-2009, 11:34 AM   #4405
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some cool footage of some of our VTA racing and one of our best racers wearing the country's coolest rc t-shirt giving us his knowledge:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Xy_a1vL9Nc
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Old 03-10-2009, 12:24 PM   #4406
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Hey all.... Just stopping in to say that we christened a new local indoor track (Pennsauken Hobbies, South Jersey) on Sunday, with some USVTA action! You should read some of the comments on this thread....

http://www.rctech.net/forum/racing-f...thread-13.html

This link will take you right to the hype on page 13.

A lot of new converts to Vintage racing...heh heh heh

We have another USVTA/Muscle Car race coming up on the 22nd if anyone is close enough to make it. Bring your dancing shoes too....I'll be bringing my DJ gear again, as well....

There are some track pics on page 10....Still a work in progress, but you'll get the idea....

This spring and summer will see the USVTA blow up around these parts....
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Old 03-10-2009, 01:37 PM   #4407
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Originally Posted by chicagokenji View Post
some cool footage of some of our VTA racing and one of our best racers wearing the country's coolest rc t-shirt giving us his knowledge:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Xy_a1vL9Nc
Awesome video Kenji!!!! That's the same vibe we have at our new indoor track....

The Pennsauken track is in the basement of a strip mall, where the hobby shop is located.....
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Old 03-10-2009, 03:47 PM   #4408
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I do think we need to look into the issue of timing in speed controls. Not because they necessarily give a driver an advantage in speed, but because they give a driver an advantage in what FDR they can run.

Based on what I've witnessed in person, drivers who advance the timing with the Tekin speed control are running a higher FDR. Even with the higher FDR, they are still able to go a similar speed in the straights. I run a LRP TC and the lowest that I've ever run my FDR is 4.375 and still had a car as fast as anyone else. While most indoor tracks may not be large enough to gain a huge advantage on the straight, there are some situations that I've raced in VTA that it could give one driver a potential benefit such as a large outdoor parking lot track. Hypothetically speaking if a driver with an advanced timing Tekin speed control at 5.0 FDR is just a fast as a non-advanced timing Novak speed control at 4.2, then shouldn't the Tekin would potentially be faster on the straight with a 4.2? If a driver could gain a second or more on their competition in the staights, don't you think they will try?

The more that I race this class the more I realize that the good drivers make their cars go better through the corners. Most of the time I am just as fast (or faster) than them on the straights. This fact is the reason why I have fun in this class. I know I have to drive better or smarter since the cars are all fairly even. I can accept that I was beaten by a better driver. What neither my ego or my wallet can accept at this point is that I'm being beaten by technology in a class that is supposed to be about (following quote taken from http://www.usvintagetransam.com)

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The class rules are developed to provide close racing with controlled chassis, battery, motor, tire and body specifications. The goal of the Trans-Am class is to bring back awesome looking cars in a cost controlled racing format where the result is just plain fun. The speed of the specification package brings close and competitive racing for sportsman, intermediate and experienced hobbyist that rewards driver development.
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Old 03-10-2009, 04:26 PM   #4409
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While I agree in principle with the thought that timing and ESCs should be limited to keep the playing field level, I would ask how you would propose doing that on a club level? Short of outlawing certain speedos (and don't believe that they ALL won't have adjustable timing in the very near future), or making ONE speed controller mandatory—which isn't realistic at all—there is no way to mandate 0° motor or ESC timing at local tracks.

It's why the timing has been open in the USVTA rules from day-1. There really isn't any simple way for anyone to police it, outside of nicely asking everyone to run 0° timing. It isn't practical, and opens up a whole can of worms in itself.


In a perfect world, everyone uses the exact same motors with the exact same ESCs and the exact same chassis, but we didn't build a perfect world spec class.

Again, at the pointy end of the grid, it might be a difference maker, but then again, most guys looking for hundreths of a second a lap are probably all already using the timing adjustable ESCs and are also capable of taking advantage of the extra 1% that the expensive electronics offer.



I don't think they are necessary to win or have fun in Vintage Trans Am racing.
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Old 03-10-2009, 04:38 PM   #4410
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Doug is absolutely correct re: the "advantages" of various esc's and other "hop-ups", and it's true in VTA just as it is in other classes. Far and away the biggest "disadvantage" to running, say, a Havoc vs a Tekin RS in VTA is going to be the psych-job YOU GIVE YOURSELF that it is your equipment that is letting you down.

Any of these improved products the marginal advantage they MAY confer is FAR more than given back the very first real driving error you make. And if you find yourself needing to be marshalled during your heat or main there is no equipment that would have saved you unless you also had seized bearings and a pack with a bad cell. As reen and others have identified--worry more about your driving and less about your equipment if you're trying to improve in ANY class we commonly race. If you're driving the great majority of your heats without needing to be marshalled, then setups and equipment MIGHT begin to show some advantages.
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