R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Like Tree1Likes
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-30-2009, 03:58 AM   #4156
Tech Elite
 
SWTour's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Central Coast...CALIF.
Posts: 2,874
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
Default

ROAR RULES

Something some people forget about, or maybe don't even know...

a club or track that is ROAR sanctioned is NOT limited to running classes, products, etc. that are ROAR 'legal'

Clubs and tracks that carry a ROAR sanction have to abide by certain saftey standards & insure all competitors are ROAR members in order to be covered by the ROAR ins. policy, however that does not preclude them from creating, shaping and modifying rules to be used to benefit their local or regional racing.

ROAR Rules must be enforced at HIGHER level "SANCTIONED" competition events, such as Regional Championships or National Events, but even for these events variances can be granted to NON-CONFORMING classes. However, at those events the rules sanctioned classes must also be offered.

So, with THAT being said...under ROAR Sanction a local club can at their descretion allow a battery such as the ORION 2400 to be used at the club level events if they so desire, and make it know that product is being allowed.

For more info on that, you can contact Dawn Sanchez (ROAR President)
__________________
Joe Myers
R/C Racing since 1985 ~ Santa Maria, CA (Central Coast)
2001-2012 - South-West Tour R/C Oval Series...will the SWT be revived?
Things are headed towards a return of the SWT Series, but for
2017 the focus will be on the Encino Velodrome (and dirt oval racing)
SWTour is offline  
Old 01-30-2009, 07:11 AM   #4157
Tech Champion
 
Scottrik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 6,212
Trader Rating: 245 (100%+)
Default

I'm truly aware that ROAR allow (and actively encourage) deviation from many of their rules in the interest of supporting club-level racing. My concern is more with the insurance underwriters/adjusters and my more general understanding of how THEY work.

The LiPo batteries are one of the only (THE only?) item that ROAR safety tests prior to approval. Now I know it's a LOOOOOONG stretch, but what if a non-ROAR approved LiPo has a catastrophic failure and causes personal injury or property damage? The VERY first thing the adjusters will comb for are "out's", situations that may have been present that mitigate or eliminate their obligation to pay. They comb the entry list for drivers who aren't ROAR members. You KNOW they'd want the battery at the heart of the problem and would be comparing it with the approved batteries on ROAR's list. What is the status of the claim if it ISN'T on ROAR's approved list? Don't know? Me either. My concern is, though, that I don't have the money in my pocket to cover re-building the Shrine Auditorium (nor do any of the folks I race with) where we race and you can bet that their attorney will be naming names on their lawsuit to have the damages covered. You can also bet my name would be right near the top of the list since I'm the person in the club who is their direct contact and makes all our scheduling and other arrangements with them.

Again, is this a LIKELY scenario? Nope. Is it possible? Absolutely. Can the question/concern be eliminated without any undue injury to anyone? Yup...just require that everyone's LiPo battery is on the approved list and that ALL charging and other safety requirements specified for LiPo batteries(containment device, buckets of sand, tech for voltage, etc) are followed. As long as the rules are enforced evenly and consistently there's no one at any sort of disadvantage from them, competitively or economically.

We have, as a club, had this very discussion. We allow non-ROAR approved 19T motors, for example, but we have decided as a group that as far as LiPo batteries we have to stick to the ROAR list. To do otherwise exposes us (as limited as that exposure may be) unneccessarily to financial loss.

I will talk to Dawn, though, and the insurance representative and see if I can get WRITTEN clarification on the above. I'm kind of doubting we'd get anything of that nature from the insurance folks, and nice as Dawn is, her word over the internet or even on paper isn't an obligation for the insurance carriers.
__________________
Congressmen should wear uniforms like NASCAR drivers so we can identify their corporate sponsors.

THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT BE TELEVISED -Gil Scott-Heron (1949-2011)
Scottrik is offline  
Old 01-30-2009, 07:54 AM   #4158
Tech Regular
 
Racer X79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Waterford, Wi
Posts: 407
Trader Rating: 30 (100%+)
Default

Very good points about the non-roar lipo's, I never thought about it from a insurance/liability stand point. The point I was trying to make was that it would be nice to have a readily availible low cost lipo for the beginners (and those on a tight budget switiching to lipo from nimh) without going through mail order. I'm a firm beliver on supporting the local hobby shop/race track whenever possible.
__________________
--Ermer Racing Inc.--
IDC Precision Machining (www.idcwi.com)--Trackside Raceway (www.trackside.com)--Hounds Hobbies and RC Track In The Back--
Racer X79 is offline  
Old 01-30-2009, 10:01 AM   #4159
Tech Addict
 
speedsterblade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: TN
Posts: 690
Default

Bite the bullet and buy roar approved packs. Be 100% usvta compliant and no worries. I personally wouldn't buy a 2400 pack cause I have to add enough lead already...
__________________
______________________________
#47 MoneyShot Racing
www.nashrcracer.com
http://thunder.rc50.com/
SMC - Customer Service 2nd to None! (thanks Dan!!)
speedsterblade is offline  
Old 01-30-2009, 11:33 AM   #4160
Tech Master
 
IndyRC_Racer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 1,820
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
Default

This link contains some photos from the Snowbirds. There are some good pictures of VTA cars in action from Thursday.

http://rcactionpics.com/2009/rcactio..._thursday.html
__________________
I'm currently racing VTA. Check here for rules/info: http://www.usvintagetransam.com/
IndyRC_Racer is offline  
Old 01-30-2009, 01:02 PM   #4161
Tech Elite
 
chicagokenji's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 4,210
Default

I wonder what class this is?

http://rcactionpics.com/thursday/sno...ursday_396.jpg
chicagokenji is offline  
Old 01-30-2009, 01:36 PM   #4162
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Maryland
Posts: 227
Trader Rating: 17 (100%+)
Default It's S/K

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagokenji View Post

It's the S/K oval spec oval class.

Here's a link to the rules http://shop.kskts.com/product.sc?cat...7&productId=49

http://www.snowbirdnationals.com/ClassPressRelease.htm
billb60 is offline  
Old 01-30-2009, 04:47 PM   #4163
Tech Elite
 
squarehead's Avatar
R/C Tech Charter Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Wheaton, Illinois
Posts: 4,211
Trader Rating: 75 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to squarehead Send a message via MSN to squarehead Send a message via Yahoo to squarehead Send a message via Skype™ to squarehead
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer X79 View Post
It's true that the 2400 Orion is not ROAR approved, but is it going to out perform anything else that is ROAR approved? I would hope that if someone showed up with one to race VTA that they would'nt get turned away.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottrik View Post
The problem is that once you start making exceptions for this or that you've started down the slippery slope that manages to kill pretty much every racing program that starts down it. Next it's motors. Then the tires (those HPI tires/wheels sure are expensive...). I think Doug sees that and will maintain a steady hand on the tiller.
What the ROAR clause in our rules is for is to keep out the cheap, bottom end Chinese/eBay/flea market LiPo packs that generally are the cause of the LiPo fear, uncertainty and doubt in this hobby. It was not the intention to eliminate quality entry-level LiPo packs, and quite honestly, up until a couple of months ago, I wasn't even aware that the Orion 2400 pack was not ROAR approved. That actually caught me off guard, as I had been recommending these packs for entry level VTA racers. I should know better.

However, they are entry-level starter LiPo packs—not really racing packs—but for $30 and the low output, who should complain about them? If anyone dipping their feet into the shallow end of the LiPo conversion wants to try them, I don't see any harm in the usage for local USVTA racing. They aren't going to be a performance advantage (but you had better make weight with them). The batteries in the USVTA rules—unlike tires, bodies and the 21.5 motor—are not specified parts, and are open to racer's choice, under the 5000mah ceiling.

So until the ROAR LiPo clause mysteriously disappears from our rules (I'd like to not have to reply on other organizations and approvals for our rules, if at all possible), let's say that the official-unofficial USVTA position on the Orion/Peak 2400 pack is that they are not approved by the letter of the rule, but they are legitimate for USVTA racing. How's that for a political answer?


The only thing I would say for sure is don't bring one to the Nationals (or any other big race, for that matter) in April if you are using one at local races.
__________________
Everything depends.
Nothing is always.
Everything is sometimes.
squarehead is offline  
Old 01-30-2009, 07:39 PM   #4164
Tech Master
 
BIG JIM WOODMAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Guthrie OK
Posts: 1,363
Trader Rating: 85 (100%+)
Default WATCH OUT!

I believe I just read something that sounded alot like a trip down the slippery slope! If you allow Orion 2400s then what is next any 21.5. Clubs should do and usually do what they want . That does not need to be sanctioned by a bend in the official rules. Apex, you have been a strong leader here. You have bent but not broken. Stand firm!
__________________
Hi, my name is Jim and I am an RC addict!

Old Guys Rule!

Bumper tag anyone?
BIG JIM WOODMAN is offline  
Old 01-30-2009, 07:53 PM   #4165
Tech Elite
 
squarehead's Avatar
R/C Tech Charter Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Wheaton, Illinois
Posts: 4,211
Trader Rating: 75 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to squarehead Send a message via MSN to squarehead Send a message via Yahoo to squarehead Send a message via Skype™ to squarehead
Default

If a 12-year old kid shows up at a club race with a 2400 Orion, are you going to tell him to go home?
__________________
Everything depends.
Nothing is always.
Everything is sometimes.
squarehead is offline  
Old 01-30-2009, 08:04 PM   #4166
Tech Champion
 
Scottrik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 6,212
Trader Rating: 245 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ApexSpeed View Post
If a 12-year old kid shows up at a club race with a 2400 Orion, are you going to tell him to go home?
Nope...one of us would loan him (or her) a battery so they can RACE!!
__________________
Congressmen should wear uniforms like NASCAR drivers so we can identify their corporate sponsors.

THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT BE TELEVISED -Gil Scott-Heron (1949-2011)
Scottrik is offline  
Old 01-30-2009, 08:24 PM   #4167
Tech Elite
 
squarehead's Avatar
R/C Tech Charter Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Wheaton, Illinois
Posts: 4,211
Trader Rating: 75 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to squarehead Send a message via MSN to squarehead Send a message via Yahoo to squarehead Send a message via Skype™ to squarehead
Default

I'm sorry, I don't see how informally allowing a lesser capacity, cheap battery pack by a globally accepted company destroys the integrity of the class on a club level.





That's just me, I could be wrong.
__________________
Everything depends.
Nothing is always.
Everything is sometimes.
squarehead is offline  
Old 01-30-2009, 08:40 PM   #4168
Tech Champion
 
Scottrik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 6,212
Trader Rating: 245 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ApexSpeed View Post
I'm sorry, I don't see how informally allowing a lesser capacity, cheap battery pack by a globally accepted company destroys the integrity of the class on a club level.





That's just me, I could be wrong.
As written above, our concern is more from a liability standpoint. Not a huge risk, to be sure, but one that we've elected to eliminate. If you're insured via other means I see no problem...other than how do you tell one kid "you can't run this non-approved battery...it's a cheap Chinese knock-off, or at least I think it is..." when you're allowing someone else to run a non-approved battery. Yeah, the Orions are probably the highest quality battery in RC (or as high as anybody), even the non-approved 2400, but a very clear line has suddenly become vague because enough people whine loud and long enough?
__________________
Congressmen should wear uniforms like NASCAR drivers so we can identify their corporate sponsors.

THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT BE TELEVISED -Gil Scott-Heron (1949-2011)
Scottrik is offline  
Old 01-30-2009, 09:26 PM   #4169
Tech Master
 
miller tyme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,712
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ApexSpeed View Post
I'm sorry, I don't see how informally allowing a lesser capacity, cheap battery pack by a globally accepted company destroys the integrity of the class on a club level.

That's just me, I could be wrong.
Rules are Rules,
What If I had A cheap lesser quality non approved 21.5 could I run it. The line needs drawn and adhered too for all, any inconsistency leave the door open for the next deviation.
__________________
Ken Miller
RCTarget - Capricorn - Pro Level RC - MAX Power - Maxima Fuel - EA Motorsorts - TQ Wire

LONG LIVE OPEN MODIFIED
miller tyme is online now  
Old 01-30-2009, 09:27 PM   #4170
Tech Champion
 
snoopyrc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Tunnel Hill GA
Posts: 5,046
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ApexSpeed View Post
If a 12-year old kid shows up at a club race with a 2400 Orion, are you going to tell him to go home?
I would just let him race, but I dont see anything wrong with loaning him a pack either.

I dont see how letting that battery has anything to do with the door for other 21.5 motors either.
__________________
www.battlefieldraceway.com Racing videos at http://www.youtube.com/snoopyrc
snoopyrc is offline  
Closed Thread

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Georgia Vintage Trans Am Racing shadow102 Georgia Racing 725 02-24-2012 09:56 AM
Vintage Trans Am Scottrik Electric On-Road 47 02-24-2012 08:21 AM
Vintage Trans-Am TC hlpressley R/C Items: Wanted to Buy 5 10-23-2008 04:00 PM
Thursday Vintage Trans Am racing at Victory in Green Bay Brian F Wisconsin & Illinois Racing 13 05-10-2008 08:37 AM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 01:00 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net