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Old 01-29-2009, 10:25 AM   #4141
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At least the Orion 2400 battery IS legal in TCS (Tamiya Championship Racing). It is a good option to replace NIHM stick pack batteries for use in the Tamiya Mini-Cooper class.
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Old 01-29-2009, 10:53 AM   #4142
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But the point is it DOESN'T increase sales overall for them...it only increases sales of their lowest margin battery at the cost of sales of their substantially better margin batteries. THAT'S marketing. Not seeking approval is actually a pretty brilliant move on their part.
Unless I choose another brand to get the features I want.
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Old 01-29-2009, 11:21 AM   #4143
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Unless I choose another brand to get the features I want.
The point is there ISN'T another brand (at least not ROAR-approved) if the feature you "want" is 2400mah. In all honesty, the feature you "want" is the cheap price (and that's not necessarily "wrong" either, just like they wish to maximize profit), which only goes so far from a business model standpoint. The simple fact is that what sells in any number are what sit on shelves. The only "competition" in the $35-50 range are Chinese knock-off batteries that have, at best, weak distribution in the US. Yeah, guys who are "tapped in" to the internet know the Yeah Racing battery is probably a darn good choice for Vintage TA, but I guarantee you Orion will sell at least ten of their 3200's this year for every one 3200 Yeah Racing sells in the US.

When Yeah Racing (and whoever follows them in) starts making serious inroads and the sub-$50 becomes a hot market you may see Orion change strategy, but I wouldn't hold my breath that it happens anytime soon. Meantime they're banking that not enough folks like you (or I, for that matter) will opt for another brand strictly on price to offset the enhanced margins their strategy creates.
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Old 01-29-2009, 12:32 PM   #4144
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If you want to check out live on-road racing from the Snowbirds, it looks like the next VTA heat will be up in the next 5-10 minutes or around 2:45 PM EST/1:45 PM CST.

The link is http://www.snowbirdnationals.com/live.htm

2nd heat of VTA is lining up now (3:00 PM EST)
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Old 01-29-2009, 05:01 PM   #4145
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A HUGE caveat is in order on this point. The USVTA rules clearly state that LiPo's must be ROAR-approved, and the Orion 2400 is definitely not ROAR-approved nor does it sound like Orion intends to submit that particular battery for approval. Now, if your club specifically allows batteries that are not ROAR-approved then you're in like Flynn. I WOULD ADVISE SPECIFICALLY ASKING THE QUESTION RATHER THAN ASSUMING AND FINDING OTHERWISE. Be aware that this battery would be illegal at, say, the USVTA Nats, any ROAR event in the future, current events like the Snowbirds going on this week that use ROAR rules, and at any club that relies on ROAR for their insurance.

Now, the Yeah Racing 3200 IS ROAR-approved. Dinball has 'em on e-Bay selling them two packs for $70 plus $10 for shipping, creating a net price of $40/each for brand new packs that people have been giving generally positive reviews of. Worth considering anyway. I've got a couple en-route for my 21.5/lipo car I'm building. $130 Havoc/21.5 combo (brand new), $40 LiPo battery (brand new), $70 Spektrum receiver (already had), $30 servo (already had), $70-ish for new VTA tires, wheels, body, $200 for a lightly used TC5R roller. Looks like something over $500 for WAY more car than is needed for VTA and certainly a better car than I am driver. I deserve it though...I've been flogging my poor TC4 "Team" tubby for 2 years now that was 100% builit up (other than body/tires/wheels) with stuff I had stashed in boxes in the basement. And it needs a break. Plus I've been looking for an excuse to pick up a TC5.
common guys....I got a call about all this back and forward about some lipos?

all is needed to say is if you go to a "ROAR" track and you have a Orion 2400, they might give you some crap about it.....but for the same price, you can get the Yeah battery that is Roar approved....period...dont over-complicate things...when newbies read this they are looking for the simple way of getting into TA.....

I didnt know about the Roar issue...but once again Im just trying to shed some light on the class to help ppl whom are starting from scratch.....

new topic...TQ...that is a great idea....once the Birds are over,I think a open day will be available....and I think other tracks should do the same....remember we cant race forever...and we need the newbies to take our place so the tracks stay open....

so we can come out of retirement and get some...lol
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Old 01-29-2009, 06:33 PM   #4146
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Which would you chose to run, the 17.5 or the 21.5? I have both kinds of batteries and I don't mind the work associated with the NiMH ones. I just need the motor and I would like your opions on which one to get. Thank you.
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Old 01-29-2009, 07:13 PM   #4147
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Never mind.

If explaining what you failed to cover, whether you knew it to be the case or not, in your blanket recommendation has offended then please accept my heartfelt appologies. The fact is, there are newbs out here who could have taken that recommendation and bought the non-approved battery only to find they couldn't run it...is that conducive to attracting and retaining new racers?
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Old 01-29-2009, 07:35 PM   #4148
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common guys....I got a call about all this back and forward about some lipos?

all is needed to say is if you go to a "ROAR" track and you have a Orion 2400, they might give you some crap about it.....but for the same price, you can get the Yeah battery that is Roar approved....period...dont over-complicate things...when newbies read this they are looking for the simple way of getting into TA.....

I didnt know about the Roar issue...but once again Im just trying to shed some light on the class to help ppl whom are starting from scratch.....

new topic...TQ...that is a great idea....once the Birds are over,I think a open day will be available....and I think other tracks should do the same....remember we cant race forever...and we need the newbies to take our place so the tracks stay open....

so we can come out of retirement and get some...lol
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I didnt know about the Roar issue...but once again Im just trying to shed some light on the class to help ppl whom are starting from scratch...
ok...re-read....and as far as you and your "GANG SIGNS"....I have a couple myself...but Im really a nice guy....lol
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Old 01-29-2009, 08:04 PM   #4149
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The "economy" lipo problem is, the Yeah lipo's aren't readily available at local hobby shops and race tracks. I don't really see what the big deal is with the Orion 2400's....it's a great battery for a very good price, and they're everywhere. It's true that the 2400 Orion is not ROAR approved, but is it going to out perform anything else that is ROAR approved? I would hope that if someone showed up with one to race VTA that they would'nt get turned away. Another option would be the SMC 2600...... again, I have no idea if it's ROAR approved, but it looks like a very good battery in the $50 range. Maybe we can get Doug to add an admendment to allow 1 or 2 specific lower end lipo's to keep costs down.
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Old 01-29-2009, 08:13 PM   #4150
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The "economy" lipo problem is, the Yeah lipo's aren't readily available at local hobby shops and race tracks. I don't really see what the big deal is with the Orion 2400's....it's a great battery for a very good price, and they're everywhere. It's true that the 2400 Orion is not ROAR approved, but is it going to out perform anything else that is ROAR approved? I would hope that if someone showed up with one to race VTA that they would'nt get turned away. Another option would be the SMC 2600...... again, I have no idea if it's ROAR approved, but it looks like a very good battery in the $50 range. Maybe we can get Doug to add an admendment to allow 1 or 2 specific lower end lipo's to keep costs down.
The problem is that once you start making exceptions for this or that you've started down the slippery slope that manages to kill pretty much every racing program that starts down it. Next it's motors. Then the tires (those HPI tires/wheels sure are expensive...). I think Doug sees that and will maintain a steady hand on the tiller.

And the reason the Yeah Racing 3200's are so comparatively inexpensive is precisely the fact that they aren't readily available here. As soon as they get into the distribution chain (which is the key to "readily available") the price on them goes up. You can bet they'd come out of it $50+ as well.

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Old 01-29-2009, 08:17 PM   #4151
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Cost down? I bought 1 lipo and replaced 4 NiMh packs. It cost me $110 for the lipo. The 4 NiMh packs would have cost me $180. Lipo is already less expensive. I race twice, charge, race twice. Simple, easy and all with one pack.
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Old 01-29-2009, 08:32 PM   #4152
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Originally Posted by Racer X79 View Post
The "economy" lipo problem is, the Yeah lipo's aren't readily available at local hobby shops and race tracks. I don't really see what the big deal is with the Orion 2400's....it's a great battery for a very good price, and they're everywhere. It's true that the 2400 Orion is not ROAR approved, but is it going to out perform anything else that is ROAR approved? I would hope that if someone showed up with one to race VTA that they would'nt get turned away. Another option would be the SMC 2600...... again, I have no idea if it's ROAR approved, but it looks like a very good battery in the $50 range. Maybe we can get Doug to add an admendment to allow 1 or 2 specific lower end lipo's to keep costs down.
You forget it's not just USVTA. Even if the rules allowed non ROAR lipos, if you track is ROAR insured you can bet even though USVTA rules don't call for ROAR batteries, you track will.

So, since the idea behind a National Org is so you can go anywhere and race you make the rule ROAR batteries and that covers everyone.
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Old 01-29-2009, 09:43 PM   #4153
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I'm going to have to agree with RacerX79. I'll let the powers that be discuss the pros and cons of what has been brought up but I just can't believe that adding a low cost safe battery alternative would cause a huge problem. The Orion is already approved by the TCS series and the USVTA already does not allow all ROAR approved lipos (only up to 5000mah) anyway. So there is precedent for deviation even though the USVTA doesn't need ROAR approval for their rules. Don't know much about the SMC but can't imagine it would be anything less than the same quality as their other products. Also as was stated a $110 lipo in the long run is still cheaper than NIMH. I couldn't agree more! But lets not forget that $35 is still way less than $110. And before we get caught up thinking you need 2 you really don't. I run one in a Tamiya mini class and have no problem getting it charged in time. If you feel you need 2 its still only $70. So for those really looking for or needing a low cost battery alternative I don't think it shouldn't be included just because it hasn't been sent in for approval.
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Old 01-29-2009, 10:56 PM   #4154
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in the magazines...Orion ads say Roar approved...on all lipos incl 2400
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Old 01-29-2009, 11:04 PM   #4155
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When it shows up here http://www.roarracing.com/approvals/lipobattery.php it's ROAR-approved.
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