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Old 01-26-2009, 03:49 PM   #4081
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Originally Posted by miller tyme View Post
If this question/request keeps popping up....maybe it SHOULD be re-evaluated.

For what it's worth, I don't want to run 21.5, I would like to make 27t work or if need be for low maintenace the 17.5, After all now-a-days what's more vintage than brushed How ever after running VTA at 2 different tracks this weekend it would appear that the advantage clearly is toward the 21.5. Maybe a revised FDR limit would help.

I'll leave the 21.5 issue at that and won't mention it again.
Actually a well, even half-way decently, maintained 27t motor will be just as fast as the 21.5

The reason everyone is running the 21.5/lipo option is ease-of-maintenance..no more cutting comms, changing brushes, blah blah blah that comes with the brushed motors...

of the 3 motor options, only the (and this is in my opinion) 2 that fairly equal are the 21.5 and the 27t...the 17.5 needs lots gear and "help" to make up for the shortness of bottom end grunt that the 27t and the 21.5 have...
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Old 01-26-2009, 03:53 PM   #4082
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Okay, so let's say someone is a full ride/top level sponsored driver.....if you go to the Reedy race, Novak race, etc., with handout or brand specific motors and/or batteries, what do you do? Quit? Not race?

The rule has ALWAYS been that only the Novak 21.5 motor is legal for USVTA class. Why would it matter if it's ahead, behind, faster, or slower than everything else? IT DOESN'T BECAUSE EVERYONE IS RUNNING THE SAME 21.5 MOTOR....THAT'S THE POINT.

I just don't get it. Why is this still an issue?
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Old 01-26-2009, 03:57 PM   #4083
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Originally Posted by miller tyme View Post
If this question/request keeps popping up....maybe it SHOULD be re-evaluated.

For what it's worth, I don't want to run 21.5, I would like to make 27t work or if need be for low maintenace the 17.5, After all now-a-days what's more vintage than brushed How ever after running VTA at 2 different tracks this weekend it would appear that the advantage clearly is toward the 21.5. Maybe a revised FDR limit would help.

I'll leave the 21.5 issue at that and won't mention it again.
Why does it need re-evaluated for a 5th, 6th and 10th time? One motor keeps it fair. The minute you open it up, becomes motor of the month and against everything this class is about.

The only advantage 21.5 has over 27t is time. As in I sit around and bullshit with other drivers, instead of running back, getting batteries on the discharger before heading out to marshel, then running back, pulling my motor cutting the com etc...
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Old 01-26-2009, 03:59 PM   #4084
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Originally Posted by NUCRPTRACER View Post
...Then you will understand "THE SPIRIT OF THE USVTA".....If that dont work run somethin else....
I wish the 1/12 guys would follow the 'these are the rules and "if that don't work run somethin else"

I understand all points and have tried to follow the thread periodically, It does help to at least know the thinking behind what otherwise appear to be conflicting details. 'it works cause class size is big' leaves a lot of to be desired...maybe it could be bigger.

That said VTA is a great concept and I'll most likely run it periodically, and hell may even make the Nationals. It is a blast and a great way for guys to follow the Rubbing is racing rule with a minimal amount of hurt fealings and broken parts.

TWOTONE - if one motor keeps it fair then why have the other options.

All I was doing was asking IF and Why. The explanations have put things into perspective even if I don't agree, and I'll not ruffle any more feathers.
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Old 01-26-2009, 04:05 PM   #4085
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ours is not to question why ...................................
why is there air?
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Old 01-26-2009, 04:10 PM   #4086
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Originally Posted by miller tyme View Post
I wish the 1/12 guys would follow the 'these are the rules and "if that don't work run somethin else"

I understand all points and have tried to follow the thread periodically, It does help to at least know the thinking behind what otherwise appear to be conflicting details. 'it works cause class size is big' leaves a lot of to be desired...maybe it could be bigger.

That said VTA is a great concept and I'll most likely run it periodically, and hell may even make the Nationals. It is a blast and a great way for guys to follow the Rubbing is racing rule with a minimal amount of hurt fealings and broken parts.

TWOTONE - if one motor keeps it fair then why have the other options.

All I was doing was asking IF and Why. The explanations have put things into perspective even if I don't agree, and I'll not ruffle any more feathers.
Ask yourself this question, if the rule said only 1 brand, 1 model number 21.5 brushless is allowed, why use the other brand motor?

Then, if you sees someone is using LIPO/Novak 21.5 has the fastest lap time...why would you still run 17.5 with 4 cells or 27T with 4 cells....

The choice is yours...and you have only 3 choices to choose from. Most ppl pick 21.5/lipo is NOT because it is a novak motor...it is because it is the easiest. If you want the fastest....get 27T and some super dupper 4 cells and you can kick everyone ass........just you need a lot of time and $$$ to be fast.

What is so difficult to follow the rule and just RACE..? Especially when this rule is WILDLY adopted by most of the track that ran VTA class.

Look at the TECH stand point....TECH sees the GREEN COLOR rim on the motor, motor is GOOD to go.

Now...if you have someone else running some other 21.5 motor that is ahead of you by 1 second per laps, and you know he is not driving any better then you....what are you going to do next..? You will go buy the same motor that he is using cause somehow that 21.5 is faster then the novak one.

I still believe this is the BEST rule ever in any form of racing...almost as good as the SILVER CAN 540 rule untill someone start "WRECNHING" those $18 motor and REV the RPM to the sky....
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Old 01-26-2009, 04:37 PM   #4087
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Ask yourself this question, if the rule said only 1 brand, 1 model number 21.5 brushless is allowed, why use the other brand motor?
If such were the case I'd not run it at all, SPEC takes half the racing and all the Hobby out of it.

Almost sorry I brought motors up, but at least now I'm on the same page.

New topic, I'm running a 415 MSX and have a few issues,
1st - wheels rub the steering knuckles, the fix is wider hexes and an additional 1mm of shims but this widens the front more than I like and seems to be adding to a push problem. Anyone found a better fix?

2nd - The aforementioned push coupled with a tendacy to barrell roll if I try to whip it around a 180 make it tricky to drive faster.

Set-up is
Yellow springs Ft/Rr, 2 hole pistons, 40wt oil
5.5 mm front ride hight 6.5 rear
about 1* toe out front, 1* toe in rear front flat rear 1* squat
front droop ~1.25mm, rear 0.5mm
no sway bars
weight 4cell forward left to right balance nearly 50/50 total weight ~1460g
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Old 01-26-2009, 05:29 PM   #4088
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miller tyme View Post
If such were the case I'd not run it at all, SPEC takes half the racing and all the Hobby out of it.

Almost sorry I brought motors up, but at least now I'm on the same page.

New topic, I'm running a 415 MSX and have a few issues,
1st - wheels rub the steering knuckles, the fix is wider hexes and an additional 1mm of shims but this widens the front more than I like and seems to be adding to a push problem. Anyone found a better fix?

2nd - The aforementioned push coupled with a tendacy to barrell roll if I try to whip it around a 180 make it tricky to drive faster.

Set-up is
Yellow springs Ft/Rr, 2 hole pistons, 40wt oil
5.5 mm front ride hight 6.5 rear
about 1* toe out front, 1* toe in rear front flat rear 1* squat
front droop ~1.25mm, rear 0.5mm
no sway bars
weight 4cell forward left to right balance nearly 50/50 total weight ~1460g
I seriously disagree with your view of spec rules-
SPEC takes away 3/4 of the $$$$, adds 10x more entries, and equals the competion. But that's okay, everyone has an opinion.

Anyway, you might be too soft in the front. Try 60wt in the front with white springs, 0 deg toe in the front, 2-3 deg. in the rear, 5.5 mm ride height all the way around with maybe .5mm to 1mm droop front and rear, and -1 deg. camber all around. I always ran the battery in the center with my MSX and X-ray. Give it a try, it just might work.

As far as front wheel vs. steering knuckle, you have 3 options. 1-leave it the way it is, 2-switch to the older TA04 style arms/c hubs/steering knuckles, 3-switch to the newer 416/TA05 IFSR style arms/c hubs/steering knuckles.
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Old 01-26-2009, 05:45 PM   #4089
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Originally Posted by Racer X79 View Post
Anyway, you might be too soft in the front. Try 60wt in the front with white springs, 0 deg toe in the front, 2-3 deg. in the rear, 5.5 mm ride height all the way around with maybe .5mm to 1mm droop front and rear, and -1 deg. camber all around. I always ran the battery in the center with my MSX and X-ray. Give it a try, it just might work.

As far as front wheel vs. steering knuckle, you have 3 options. 1-leave it the way it is, 2-switch to the older TA04 style arms/c hubs/steering knuckles, 3-switch to the newer 416/TA05 IFSR style arms/c hubs/steering knuckles.
Spec works as long as every one is interested in being the same speed, as soon as one person decides to buy X number of motors to find a good one or buys the latest high C or bigger mAh allowed, finds that trick to do to the tires on Thursday to make them faster on Friday...ETC....

back to the Set-up, have you tried the other front end choices and do they widen the trac as much as what I'm doing now.

Some ideas make sense And I've thought of, I'm really pressed for time on race nights not getting off work early enough and pracitce day is limited.

the 60wt/heavier shocks is/was on the shortlist.
Won't adding rear toe add to the push, and and moving the battery back would also seem to add rear bite, {unless it might help prevent weight transfer caused barrel rolls} I'll give it a try.

Thanks
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Old 01-26-2009, 05:51 PM   #4090
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Old 01-26-2009, 05:56 PM   #4091
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Originally Posted by miller tyme View Post
Spec works as long as every one is interested in being the same speed,

Thanks
I'll just have to say I disagree. I used to run in a F1 club that had hand out motors and TC. The guys that spanked in TC still beat me in F1, but it wasn't by nearly as much so it does even things out a lot and make it more about the driving/set up.

Last edited by TwoTone; 01-26-2009 at 06:09 PM.
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Old 01-26-2009, 06:00 PM   #4092
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I dont mind the spec aspect, but there are always ways around it. However I think most people worry about whats under everyone elses hood more than they should. If people spent half as much time setting up their cars and studying an xray setup manual as they do whining about the haves and have nots they would be way faster in the end.
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Old 01-26-2009, 06:16 PM   #4093
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Hello,I was just wondering what other guys were running for ride height with a tc3 in trans am?Also does anyone have any comments on the 21.5 havoc system?
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Old 01-26-2009, 06:24 PM   #4094
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The original TA-05 hubs rub against the wheels as well (I think its the same as the TA-04, not sure since I haven't owned a TA-04).

Miller Tyme. to get more steering back in add a little more rear droop so the wieght shifts more when decelerating. Also even out your ride height and try a softer spring in the rear to take care of the trraction rolling issue. Those might work.
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Old 01-26-2009, 06:31 PM   #4095
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I just made a minor update to the Rules page on the USVTA website to note that no other 21.5s are in the future plans for this class.

Somehow, I don't see this question going away anytime soon, though.
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Hello,I was just wondering what other guys were running for ride height with a tc3 in trans am?Also does anyone have any comments on the 21.5 havoc system?
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