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Old 01-26-2009, 01:37 PM   #4066
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One last time—I'm not going to answer the question anymore, so everyone else can fill newps in on what has been discussed ad nauseum on every page of this thread for the last 6 months.


This is essentially a spec class, with two secondary motor and battery options. The spec motor is the Novak SS21.5 Pro brushless motor (pn:3421) ONLY combined with any hard-cased 2C 7.4v LiPo pack up to and including 5000 mAh capacity. That is the only motor option for LiPo batteries, and there are ZERO plans of changing the spec. It quickly became obvious that most other 21.5s on the market before the ROAR specs were released last month were faster than the Novak, and to keep this class from destroying itself, it was decided that it was in everyone's best interests to keep other motors away from the spec.

If you feel the need to run another brand of motor—unlike any other class in racing—you have two other separate options. One, you can choose any brushless 17.5 motor or the old school route of a 27T stock brushed motor combined with your favorite 4-cell NiMh pack. No other class gives you three separate options for battery/motor that doesn't include the title "Modified."


I honestly see VERY few rules changes in the coming year—maybe only a couple of very minor details or wording changes for clarity. The rules have been in place for over a year now and obviously are working tremendously well (see the 2009 ROAR rules, the most recent Novak race and the 2009 Snowbirds class list). It's time to let the class continue to grow and for people to stop worrying about the brand of motor or mAh of batteries that they have in the car.


This class is supposed to be fun, not a game of who has the faster brushless motor.
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Old 01-26-2009, 01:42 PM   #4067
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Apex, I'd seriously consider putting a * after that combo in the rules and at the buttom of the web site rules page out put what you just wrote.
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Old 01-26-2009, 02:18 PM   #4068
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Apex, I'd seriously consider putting a * after that combo in the rules and at the buttom of the web site rules page out put what you just wrote.
Because that would stop people from asking?

If the class were officially called "U.S. Novak 3421 SS21.5 Pro Brushless Motor Vintage Trans-Am" people would come on here asking what motors they can run. Plus, the logo would look ugly.
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Old 01-26-2009, 02:41 PM   #4069
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I just made a minor update to the Rules page on the USVTA website to note that no other 21.5s are in the future plans for this class.

Somehow, I don't see this question going away anytime soon, though.
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Old 01-26-2009, 02:48 PM   #4070
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Originally Posted by ApexSpeed View Post
I just made a minor update to the Rules page on the USVTA website to note that no other 21.5s are in the future plans for this class.

Somehow, I don't see this question going away anytime soon, though.
The new twist is going to be people asking about running 13.5 with 3.7V 1S lipo.
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Old 01-26-2009, 02:59 PM   #4071
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Is there a way to make ApexSpeed's post about motor rules a sticky in this forum so that it stays at the top of every page?

Now for 2 motor questions that aren't about 21.5 motors.

What type of brushes have the people running 27 turn motors been using for this class? When I was running 6-cell oval TC, I was using CO27 motors with the Trinity XXX brushes (for stock motors). I always thought that brush had long life and plenty of power. I was also using purple or red springs. I've never really run much 4-cell with stock motors, so not sure what springs would be better for this class.

What gearing have the people that have been running 17.5 motors been using? I tried a Novak 17.5 and was able to win locally, but wasn't sure if I ever hit the right gear for my track. Is there a "better" 17.5 motor for this class than the Novak? I've got a HPI RS4 Pro 3 that I want to give another shot, and 4-cell 17.5 is the easiest option for that chassis. Would be willing to buy/try another 17.5 since I could use it in another class.
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Old 01-26-2009, 03:07 PM   #4072
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Originally Posted by reenmachine View Post
"U.S. Novak 3421 SS21.5 Pro Brushless Motor Vintage Trans-Am 17.5 motor or the old school route of a 27T stock brushed motor combined with your favorite 4-cell NiMh pack "
I agree to add to the top of every post automatcally.
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Old 01-26-2009, 03:07 PM   #4073
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Originally Posted by ApexSpeed View Post
I just made a minor update to the Rules page on the USVTA website to note that no other 21.5s are in the future plans for this class.

Somehow, I don't see this question going away anytime soon, though.
Somehow I don't see Novak lowering the price on the 21.5 motor anytime soon.

I think it is the most expensive brushed motor at retail shops.
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Old 01-26-2009, 03:10 PM   #4074
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Somehow I don't see Novak lowering the price on the 21.5 motor anytime soon.

I think it is the most expensive brushed motor at retail shops.
So what? It's the cheapest option because you will never buy another motor for this class EVER again. One and done... and it wouldn't be that way if the motors were opened up to any brand.
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Old 01-26-2009, 03:24 PM   #4075
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Originally Posted by ApexSpeed View Post
So what? It's the cheapest option because you will never buy another motor for this class EVER again. One and done... and it wouldn't be that way if the motors were opened up to any brand.

Till Novak makes improvements to cacth the other brand 21.5's in other classes.

Why the change to ban bearings in 27t stock motors. When VTA first started I ran them and it did not seem to increase motor performance (no notable gain on the Dyno) but it did seem to run cooler therefore prolonging the life, and being cheaper.
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Old 01-26-2009, 03:28 PM   #4076
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Originally Posted by ApexSpeed View Post
I just made a minor update to the Rules page on the USVTA website to note that no other 21.5s are in the future plans for this class.

Somehow, I don't see this question going away anytime soon, though.
If this question/request keeps popping up....maybe it SHOULD be re-evaluated.

For what it's worth, I don't want to run 21.5, I would like to make 27t work or if need be for low maintenace the 17.5, After all now-a-days what's more vintage than brushed How ever after running VTA at 2 different tracks this weekend it would appear that the advantage clearly is toward the 21.5. Maybe a revised FDR limit would help.

I'll leave the 21.5 issue at that and won't mention it again.
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Old 01-26-2009, 03:33 PM   #4077
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Well, we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. At this point, the Novak 21.5 is the only motor that has really been used in ANY class (BRL, USVTA), so it's not an issue on the radar yet. If Novak likes to sell lots of 21.5 brushless motors, they won't change anything. Right now, they have a nice accidental monopoly.

The bearing rules were quickly changed back after it was realized that a) there was no need for it because of the performance, b) the brushed motor option was actgually faster than the other option at the time, and c) it was a logisical nightmare for teching other stock classes where bearings mysteriously appeared in other stock motors. It was apparent that it was a needless option for brushed motors—which few people even use in this class now anyway.
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Old 01-26-2009, 03:37 PM   #4078
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The bearing rules were quickly changed back after it was realized that a) there was no need for it because of the performance, b) the brushed motor option was actgually faster than the other option at the time, and c) it was a logisical nightmare for teching other stock classes where bearings mysteriously appeared in other stock motors. It was apparent that it was a needless option for brushed motors—which few people even use in this class now anyway.
A: mute point not pro or con
B: not the case anymore, may help
C: why should other classes which hardly run 27t anymore anyway effect the rules for this class.

This class is a great comic relief to the intensity of running 1/12 and I will continue to run some combo with 4-cell (Novak products not an option), it just would be nice to be a little closer in speed and not heat up as much over 8 minutes.
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Last edited by miller tyme; 01-26-2009 at 03:48 PM.
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Old 01-26-2009, 03:45 PM   #4079
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You mean 'moot' point. I'd rather it was mute, but that's not the case.

The rules aren't changing. The class is as successful as it has been running for the last year, and is working with the rules as they have been fine-tuned. The proof is in the class numbers everywhere.
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Old 01-26-2009, 03:47 PM   #4080
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Just leave the motor alone its a dead horse stop beating it.....This class screams for lipo/Bl combo what other class creates better drivers. You are given more time to focus on driving and setup and less on your "DYNO" results and your membership to the CELL OF THE MONTH club...This is just the way it is... I have never had more fun in any class of racing....So RELAX and enjoy the class.... Think back to when it was just FUN....Then you will understand "THE SPIRIT OF THE USVTA".....If that dont work run somethin else....
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