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Old 01-03-2009, 10:17 PM   #3796
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Really depends on the car, but I would start with your cars standard asphalt setup and go from there.
Kregger ... everyplace I look that body is out of stock, next choice?
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Old 01-05-2009, 11:06 AM   #3797
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Actually, the next rule change that effects brushed 27t motors will be to eliminate them from the USVTA options completely. This won't happen for a little while yet, but there are no plans to offer any more changes to the brushed motor option. The reality is, the 27t doesn't need the help—it's already the fastest motor of the 3 choices with regular maintenance and rebuilding.

The future of this class is 21.5/LiPo, and we are rapidly getting to the point where if you are running anything else, you're not going to be up front at the end. Not to say that it can't be done with something else, but your odds are decreasing rapidly as this class progresses and the majority moves to the most consistent, easy to maintain and cost-effective powerplant option.

Be prepared—21.5/LiPo is where this class is headed.
Nice contradiction!!!!!! 27T is the fastest with maintenance of the three choices "but if you don't run lipo you will not be at the front at the end." Why can't you come out and say that the 21.5 has a clear advantage over the 27T and 17.5 right now? If lipo was slower, lets say with one cell lipo when they get the problems figured out,no one would run it because it would be slower even if it is less BS to run.
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Old 01-05-2009, 11:13 AM   #3798
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LOL...

We had a guy yesterday (a GOOD driver) that cranked off the fastest lap in the heat with a 27T 4-cell TC4. The rest of the heat was 21.5 LiPo.
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Old 01-05-2009, 11:17 AM   #3799
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Nice contradiction!!!!!! 27T is the fastest with maintenance of the three choices "but if you don't run lipo you will not be at the front at the end." Why can't you come out and say that the 21.5 has a clear advantage over the 27T and 17.5 right now? If lipo was slower, lets say with one cell lipo when they get the problems figured out,no one would run it because it would be slower even if it is less BS to run.

27t brushed is definitely faster. My track runs VTA by the book (we actually do random tech inspections) and the guy/kid who runs brushed always has the fastest car - and it is legal. 21.5 isn't far off but it's still slower. 17.5 doesn't have a chance.

However, you couldn't pay me to deal with brushed motors and NiMH again so I'm perfectly happy with a little slower car, as is everyone else with the 21.5.
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Old 01-05-2009, 11:18 AM   #3800
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No contradiction at all. If you are willing to put in the time, work and money, it has proven out that the 27t motor with 4-cell NiMh is the quickest option. I didn't say for everyone. With the best motors and batteries, lots of regular maintenance and tuning, they have shown to be faster just about everywhere. The reality is, at this point, few are willing to spend the time or money on a Trans Am car or even wants to deal with the maintenance issues to even deal with old technology anymore, when the 21.5/LiPo option is a brainless drop-in and go solution.

The second fastest option by a close margin is the 21.5/LiPo, and when a majority are running this formula, the difference between a run-of-the-mill 27t and some old round cells is HUGE.


Frankly, I don't understand what your complaint is. If you don't like the choices, don't race in the class. It's not that complicated.
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Old 01-05-2009, 11:20 AM   #3801
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I hear ya on the maintenance... LiPo and brushless is sure the easy way to go.

But I may run a second car with 27T and 4-cell just to try it (I never have). I loved building 27T stock motors and still have the comm lathe, and a TON of brushes and motor springs laying on the bench... something to do between races :-)
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Old 01-05-2009, 11:31 AM   #3802
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Our track is looking at the possibility of adding a VTA class next year. There are some that feel the track is too large for the slow speeds and want to run the HPI rules for the class (basically 6 cell 17.5). Some of the thoughts for doing this are:

- They are hosting the HPI Challenge one weekend
- The track is very large so it might seem too slow
- If we do a stock TC class then people could run both with just changing their body and tires

Im against it for the following reasons:

- Goes against the spirit of VTA
- We would be different then most other parts of the country, including the local carpet track
- Makes things like aerodynamic bodies, etc more important

My thought on the speed issue is to use corner dots or something else to add some obstacles to the track or narrow it in spots.

What are other people's thoughts on this? Anyone else going the 6-cell 17.5 route with VTA?
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Old 01-05-2009, 11:40 AM   #3803
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Check with the Florida groups who tried this unsuccessfully last summer. I believe that they are going to the USVTA rules this summer because of the tire wear, large speed discrepancies and an overall lack of turnout because of the speeds.

If I'm not mistaken, the HPI Challenge limits racers to ONLY HPI cars, so you are cutting your numbers down a LOT right there. Not enough to base the whole season on that one race, IMO.

Regardless of the size of the track, you shouldn't increase the speeds to compensate. Add chicanes or other technical areas to larger tracks to keep things interesting, but making T/A cars faster just makes them classes that already exist (and are becoming more poorly populated).
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Old 01-05-2009, 11:44 AM   #3804
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Originally Posted by or8ital View Post
Our track is looking at the possibility of adding a VTA class next year. There are some that feel the track is too large for the slow speeds and want to run the HPI rules for the class (basically 6 cell 17.5). Some of the thoughts for doing this are:

- They are hosting the HPI Challenge one weekend
- The track is very large so it might seem too slow
- If we do a stock TC class then people could run both with just changing their body and tires

Im against it for the following reasons:

- Goes against the spirit of VTA
- We would be different then most other parts of the country, including the local carpet track
- Makes things like aerodynamic bodies, etc more important

My thought on the speed issue is to use corner dots or something else to add some obstacles to the track or narrow it in spots.

What are other people's thoughts on this? Anyone else going the 6-cell 17.5 route with VTA?
First off, they're not as slow as you think. Granted, they're not running with 10.5s but at our track the fast VTA guys are only 1 second off of the 17.5 sedan guys.

The track we run on is 100'x47' and is indoor asphalt. What size is the track you're dealing with?

Personally I think stick to the rules and make the car faster by setup and better driving.
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Old 01-05-2009, 11:47 AM   #3805
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I should have said loosly HPI rules. Im sure they would allow any chassis or body. It would be the motor rules they would follow. I actually would like to see HPI adjust their rules to match USVTA with the exception of only HPI cars,bodies, tires (since it is their race).

Sounds like we are on the same page. I would like to hear from some of those Florida racers about the problems they experienced.
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Old 01-05-2009, 11:52 AM   #3806
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First off, they're not as slow as you think. Granted, they're not running with 10.5s but at our track the fast VTA guys are only 1 second off of the 17.5 sedan guys.

The track we run on is 100'x47' and is indoor asphalt. What size is the track you're dealing with?

Personally I think stick to the rules and make the car faster by setup and better driving.
Track is 128 x 72.
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Old 01-05-2009, 11:54 AM   #3807
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Ok, so I'm the wise guy that brought up speeding the cars up a little for our track. Not because i want the class to be faster, but because the straight is so long and it would be a snooze fest when the cars got there. I like the idea of the corner dots or cones or something to make it more interesting for the drivers and spectators to watch.
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Old 01-05-2009, 11:57 AM   #3808
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Ok, so I'm the wise guy that brought up speeding the cars up a little for our track. Not because i want the class to be faster, but because the straight is so long and it would be a snooze fest when the cars got there. I like the idea of the corner dots or cones or something to make it more interesting for the drivers and spectators to watch.
ha ha, you weren't the only one though. I wasnt going to use names. LOL. But the track owner is one of the others that wants the faster motors. He does run it like a club though so we will get to vote. He is influential though and on paper I can see some of the points for the faster motors which was the reason for me asking. Sounds like it has been tried unsuccessfully in the past though.
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Old 01-05-2009, 03:00 PM   #3809
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Try the USVTA rules first, adjust the track to shorten the long straight with a removable chicane or two, see how it works before you poo-poo the ideas that are tried and true. The whole point of the class is to keep the cars slow and manageable—and that means much slower than stock rubber, which is what you described.

Anything faster with this formula and you will have racers buying new tires and bodies every week—especially outdoors. The parts replacement goes up in massive numbers, too. That will equal the end of the class at your track in less than a month, I wouldn't hesitate to bet.


It's not too slow, regardless of the track size. If all of the cars are the same speed, the racing should be highly competitive, no matter what you do to the rules. Keep them slow and easy to drive, and you won't regret it.
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Old 01-05-2009, 03:06 PM   #3810
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I did get the chance to run a TA car per the rules with the exception of 13.5 lipo. There weren't too many guys at the track one night, so I threw the 13.5 in to race with the regular sedans, VTA tires and all.

To be honest, it was too fast for the tires. I could roll the car around the track, and I was faster than the 21.5 lap times I had done, but it was easy to get the car out of shape. The other cars were also much faster with normal sedan tires. Don't get me wrong, it was a ton of fun, especially when it did a realistic imitation of an overpowered muscle car going into a corner too hot I just don't think it would be very good for regular racing.
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