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Old 12-23-2008, 08:11 AM   #3736
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Originally Posted by g12314 View Post
kenji,

There is no way to say this without sounding like a jerk, but common LEARN TO DRIVE and stop looking for the SECRET or MAGIC that you think others have. Your using batteries WAY past there prime, and using stock motor that I bet is average at best. These are costing you several tenths for sure, but why penalize other people who are faster cause they can drive.
Jimmy...a couple of things about my post above:

I don't think you sound like a jerk. You sound passionate about TA and you are an experienced racer.

I'm not sure where you get the idea I'm looking for something elusive? My post detailed how I approach TA racing currently. My weekend racing is casual for fun and I fully understand my current equipment keeps me from getting better lap times. I know that if I spent money on new motors and new batteries my car would perform better. But...part of the fun recently for me has been to see what I can do with mediocre gear and not spending money. I wasn't comparing my racing to others who show up and go faster and am certainly not walking around thinking just because you have a 21.5 and Lipo batteries means you will do better. Yup I know about learning how to drive. I understand I can't keep up with our club's best racers because of my gear and my skills. When I show up for a day of racing TA I go at it as a day of fun and what makes it fun for me personally is racing against others of my skill level and who have about the same amount of laps and laptimes as me. I get a huge kick out of monitoring my consistency in my lap times. For what it's worth TA has been the key to me getting better.

Maybe I wasn't clear about the race directing issue and having one car that might show up and be heads and heels over everyone else. From what I've been told it's in the spirit of TA racing to be able to go to that racer and ask them to modify their setup so they are closer to the pack. Have I done this yet at the tracks I'm running the computer at yet? No. But I can see it as a possibility that might happen. Are you saying I shouldn't exercise that ever?

On to my comment about the Tekin RS. I meant being that I've only run this class with 27T/4cells that when it's time for me to get a BL ESC that I'm going to take a serious look at it because it looks like a great product. I didn't mean to state I think everyone should run out and buy it because that's the only way to be competitive in the near future. Up to this point from what I know it seems like there's an advantage to the product because of being able to tweak the settings in the ESC for a particular track which from what I can tell you won't be able to do with a Novak Havok.

Maybe I was unclear but my post was about telling my personal story and observations and not meant to tell others what to do.

So....I'll move this along to keep it on track.....I've only raced TA with brushed and four cells. I'm currently looking to move on to BL/LiPO. I'm paying attention to what will be available soon and had my eye on the Havok with the Novak 21.5 mainly because it's Novak product and then because of the price. After seeing the Tekin RS running with a Novak 21.5 I'm thinking of going ahead and spending the extra money for the RS. any reason not to?
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Old 12-23-2008, 08:41 AM   #3737
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Vintage Trans Am racing is 75% driving + 25% car setup. Nothing else. I don't care what equipment or motor option you are using.


Learn now to setup the car you own. Learn how to drive the car you own. When you get beat week after week by a couple of car lengths and make no mistakes and run perfect laps within a tenth of a second every time, then come to me and complain about equipment advantages.

Race your TC3, Mi2, Pro4, Xray or whatever and learn how to make it work better for your needs. Learn what makes the car change on the track. Learn how to make it .1 quicker without changing more than one thing at a time. Learn how to carry more momentum in corners to pick up .1 a lap without changing a single thing.

Stop worrying about what other racers are doing to try to cut corners. Stop worrying about heating blankets and programmable speedos and whizzy tire sauces and heat guns and unobtanium parts. It doesn't matter. Racers who think those things are important should go back to foam tire touring cars and leave Trans Am alone.



The more clucking that takes place over the powerplant rules, the more I want to up the weight minimum 250g and create a USVTA 23.5 turn spec motor.
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Old 12-23-2008, 09:14 AM   #3738
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Just in case let me make it clear that I personally am not looking at batteries/motors/ESC's/Radios to make me better at the TA racing I do. Or anything you do to the above to alter their performance.

I brought up the Tekin and the electric blanket because I've only recently see and heard about them.

Some of you know but most don't that I help run some racing programs so I see alot of TA racers and I also see how the class itself is evolving.

I'm interested in the racing equipment and I'm also interested in how hobbyists and racers are now evolving with the new equipment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ApexSpeed View Post
Stop worrying about what other racers are doing to try to cut corners. Stop worrying about heating blankets and programmable speedos and whizzy tire sauces and heat guns and unobtanium parts. It doesn't matter. Racers who think those things are important should go back to foam tire touring cars and leave Trans Am alone.
To muddy the waters even more..., I also know you can tell every racer out there that it's 75/25 skill/equipment but that goes in one ear and out the other for over 50% of the racers I know and those racers aren't seasoned veterans who once ran TC and foams.

This isn't fresh news but here's what I see at many of the races I help run:

experienced racers who don't get marshalled and can tune very well

experienced racers who don't get marshalled much and can tune a little

intermediate racers who want to get better

intermediate racers who just want to show up and race

novice racers who are consistent and getting better

novice/new racers

The last four categories of people are the most impressionable when it comes to advertising/forums/word of mouth about racing gear and what to do with it to make it perform. These are the people paying close attention to what the top two tiers of racers are doing.

I've seen these the bottom four tiers go out and spend oodles of money on things like lathes/setup boards, battery cylcling, top end battereis, top end everythining else because they think it's going to give them better lap times, even though they have been told over and over again: "slow down to get better" and "practice practice practice", before they spend money on things that won't help.

Just because we've gone from brushed/NiMh to BL/LiPo isn't going to change how the majority of racers, the four bottom tiers, see how equipment relates to skill level.
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Old 12-23-2008, 10:06 AM   #3739
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Originally Posted by ApexSpeed View Post
Vintage Trans Am racing is 75% driving + 25% car setup. Nothing else. I don't care what equipment or motor option you are using.

Learn now to setup the car you own. Learn how to drive the car you own. When you get beat week after week by a couple of car lengths and make no mistakes and run perfect laps within a tenth of a second every time, then come to me and complain about equipment advantages.

Race your TC3, Mi2, Pro4, Xray or whatever and learn how to make it work better for your needs. Learn what makes the car change on the track. Learn how to make it .1 quicker without changing more than one thing at a time. Learn how to carry more momentum in corners to pick up .1 a lap without changing a single thing.

Stop worrying about what other racers are doing to try to cut corners. Stop worrying about heating blankets and programmable speedos and whizzy tire sauces and heat guns and unobtanium parts. It doesn't matter. Racers who think those things are important should go back to foam tire touring cars and leave Trans Am alone.



The more clucking that takes place over the powerplant rules, the more I want to up the weight minimum 250g and create a USVTA 23.5 turn spec motor.
75% driver, very true for pretty much all forms of racing I have experienced..

Once you've mastered consistentency...Learning car setups is priceless...more valuable than any hot piece of gear and any win...this skill produces speed for any class/car you run.

I've come full cycle and found the spirit (fun) again...going back to setup school then setup hunting. Setup 'mastering' is my new goal.

stfu guys! I don't have any more room for +250g of lead! but on the fence about a 23.5 spec motor.
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Old 12-23-2008, 10:24 AM   #3740
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hum, well i was the guy that showed up at underground with the Tekin. They have just released some new software that the team drivers have and are helping people set up. The biggest help I've seen from the software is the initial take off. When we adjusted the timing on the other 21.5 we were equal in the straights and he's running the a novak. I like the programability,small footprint and excellent customer support from the Tekin. Mine was still quicker out of the corners, but my FDR is 5.0 and his is 4.7. i don't know how much this affects the take off. I'm starting to think you'd have to be on a dragstrip to need the 4.2 FDR.

As for the lipo heating, that's all right here on the net, read any SMC, or other thread and you'll find that info.There's been a huge discussion about it on here for the birds. As many others have stated, I think this should be BANNED at all tracks. Just my opinion though.

Now about the VTA class being 75% driving and 25% car set up. I disagree 100%, actually I have experienced just the opposite. Once the car is set up really good, about anyone can drive it comfortably. My car is the example. I bought this car 4 weeks ago and have a terrible time with it, went to the Ft wayne VTA race and couldn't keep it off the roof. I have very little experience with TC, so i asked Rob and Kevin for some help. They spent some time with the car and made it much better. Then went to underground and the car was still not right. I made 2 more changes and got some help again from Rob and the car was good. I think everyone there drove the car and liked it.

So my point is the car has to be set up good. Although I have learned anyone I've ever asked for help at a VTA race has always been willing to help.
I signed in as Hammer at Ft Wayne because there's always so many guys named Mike. You'll see I qualified 2nd to last, then finally got the car decent and won the c-main..and my driving skill is just average at best.
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Old 12-23-2008, 10:27 AM   #3741
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ApexSpeed View Post
Vintage Trans Am racing is 75% driving + 25% car setup. Nothing else. I don't care what equipment or motor option you are using.


Learn now to setup the car you own. Learn how to drive the car you own. When you get beat week after week by a couple of car lengths and make no mistakes and run perfect laps within a tenth of a second every time, then come to me and complain about equipment advantages.

Race your TC3, Mi2, Pro4, Xray or whatever and learn how to make it work better for your needs. Learn what makes the car change on the track. Learn how to make it .1 quicker without changing more than one thing at a time. Learn how to carry more momentum in corners to pick up .1 a lap without changing a single thing.

Stop worrying about what other racers are doing to try to cut corners. Stop worrying about heating blankets and programmable speedos and whizzy tire sauces and heat guns and unobtanium parts. It doesn't matter. Racers who think those things are important should go back to foam tire touring cars and leave Trans Am alone.



The more clucking that takes place over the powerplant rules, the more I want to up the weight minimum 250g and create a USVTA 23.5 turn spec motor.
+1, minus the extra weight rule (I'm not so sure on the 23.5 either). If I want to drive a car that heavy, I'll go back to running an RTR nitro class.
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Old 12-23-2008, 11:28 AM   #3742
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+1, minus the extra weight rule (I'm not so sure on the 23.5 either). If I want to drive a car that heavy, I'll go back to running an RTR nitro class.
no problem here with weight rules my 006 is 1550 with 4cell

the cool thing about the weight is it actually is an advanage to handling. car balance and traction are both increased when done properly
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Old 12-23-2008, 11:51 AM   #3743
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Now about the VTA class being 75% driving and 25% car set up. I disagree 100%, actually I have experienced just the opposite. Once the car is set up really good, about anyone can drive it comfortably.
I'm not agruing w/ your experience but a IMO good driver can typically drive around a bad setup for the most part...assuming the setup is somewhat drivable. Somewhat being the key..if it's totally jacked it won't drive well for anyone. A perfectly setup car won't go fast if the driver doesn't have the skills. Bottom line, driving skills are more important than anything.

In TA, tires are common to all but in general RC racing I have to agree w/ what a national level racer told me which is similar to Apex's 75/25.. is 70% driver, 20% tires & 10% setup (assuming it's a somewhat drivable setup). Though setup importance is more critical in TA with a single tire choice...75/25 is on the money. (imo)
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Old 12-23-2008, 12:50 PM   #3744
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50% tires!

Oh the joy of getting VTA tires to work just right.

New Tires = Greased Pig!
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Old 12-23-2008, 01:15 PM   #3745
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Wow I must have got lucky with my current set. I scuffed them on asphalt for about 45 seconds and put them away. Next morning all I did was Paragon-coat them then went out and practiced, they gripped liked velcro!
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Old 12-23-2008, 01:48 PM   #3746
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I found out the hard way. Glue, sauce, track.... WALL! It was a fun race for others to watch.

I've since learned they come with preservative and form release all over them.
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Old 12-23-2008, 02:20 PM   #3747
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I found out the hard way. Glue, sauce, track.... WALL! It was a fun race for others to watch.

I've since learned they come with preservative and form release all over them.
+1. I am also a victim of the Glue+Sauce+Track=Wall formula. It was pretty funny looking back on my car going straight at about 75% top speed into a wall.
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Old 12-23-2008, 02:51 PM   #3748
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The more clucking that takes place over the powerplant rules, the more I want to up the weight minimum 250g and create a USVTA 23.5 turn spec motor.

I wouldnt have a problem with that. I would pony up the cash and jump in. I just wonder. Do you have a manufacturer ready to produce the 23.5 spec motor for you? Could someone make you just a couple for testing?
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Old 12-23-2008, 06:10 PM   #3749
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I wouldnt have a problem with that. I would pony up the cash and jump in. I just wonder. Do you have a manufacturer ready to produce the 23.5 spec motor for you? Could someone make you just a couple for testing?
I thought USVTA allready had a spec Brushless motor in the rules found on page 1:
Motor Specifications:
Option 1: 27-turn ROAR stock motor: No FDR limit, bearings are not allowed.
Option 2: 17.5 brushless: Motor timing advance is allowed. 12.5 mm rotor diameter maximum (no "tuning" rotors are allowed).

Option 3: 21.5 brushless with 2C LiPo: Novak SS21.5 Pro brushless motor (pn:3421) ONLY combined with any ROAR-approved hard-cased 2C 7.4v LiPo pack up to and including 5000 mAh capacity.

At least that is the way I read it........
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Old 12-23-2008, 07:02 PM   #3750
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I wouldnt have a problem with that. I would pony up the cash and jump in. I just wonder. Do you have a manufacturer ready to produce the 23.5 spec motor for you? Could someone make you just a couple for testing?
I'm not sure adding another motor to the mix is very produtive at this time. The rules as they are now, provide for the racer to use a power combo he may already own or step up and spring for the 21.5 option. It's really easy for me to understand. Some day in the near future, we will not have any choice when it comes to using lipo's. The 4 cell/6cell pack as we know it will no longer be availible. Same for brushed/brushless motors. The way I see it, current rules allow most anyone to race in this class. I know you die hard racers can have fun at this too. Race hard but slow down to enjoy life. Big Jim

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