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Old 02-04-2008, 06:31 AM   #361
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Originally Posted by rcracenut View Post
We at Hobbytown Oshkosh, Wi went with the Traxxas Stinger 20 turn for two reasons. 1. Less expense for the beginners. No brushes and lathe needed. 2. No special motor tuning. Spend time on handling and driving skills. Also no motor tampering. Besides that, the Stinger is only $20. Runs forever too.
All motors can be tampered with—trust me. Cheap motors like the silver can Mabuchis and the Stingers have such bad production standards and tolerances, that many of them are really bad right out of the box, and require a lot of voodoo to have a "good" one. That, or racers will purchase 10-20 "cheap" motors in order to start with a good one and work their way faster.

A regular stock motor still requires some effort to be good, but none of the things that you do to a stock motor would be considered illegal. You can also buy a prepped stock motor off the shelf, so no new racer is immediately at a horsepower disadvantage.


Honestly, I'm disappointed that there are so many tracks deciding to use "cheap" motors that tend to invite cheating.
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Old 02-04-2008, 10:54 AM   #362
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I raced the stock motors for a long time. A pro version is $35 compared to $20. Then there are dozens of brush/spring combos and can twisting that goes into the power difference of a stock that a newbie wont know how to do that he/she could spend hours of testing (not to mention the cost of a dyno and lathe) and hundreds of dollars on to find out.
Silver can is the way to keep it cheap. K.I.S. (Keep it simple)
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Old 02-04-2008, 11:27 AM   #363
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I raced the stock motors for a long time. A pro version is $35 compared to $20. Then there are dozens of brush/spring combos and can twisting that goes into the power difference of a stock that a newbie wont know how to do that he/she could spend hours of testing (not to mention the cost of a dyno and lathe) and hundreds of dollars on to find out.
Silver can is the way to keep it cheap. K.I.S. (Keep it simple)
My opinion is that pretty much any motor class can have 'cheating'. But whatever if guys want to do it then so be it.

As long as the cheating car is running a Trans Am body instead of the cookie cutter Mazda 6 it's cool to me :P
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Old 02-04-2008, 12:23 PM   #364
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Hi All,
Doug directed me to this forum. Great idea with the series, he told me that there was race being held in Illnois, but I had no idea!!!!! I am a bit of a 1:1 Trans Am nut myself, both of yesteryear and in the 80s/90s, can't get enough of the stuff and have quite a large personal collection of memoribilia.

Anyways, the 1:10 Gurney Cuda of Doug's you see on the very first post of this thread uses the decal set that I have created and available for purchase. If anyone is interested in a set, please shoot me a PM and I will respond via email from there. I have the Gurney and Savage Cuda's available right now.

Also FYI, soon to be available, hopefully in the next 2 to 3 weeks:

1. 1969 Bud Moore Boss 302 red/white/black decal set
2. 1969 Shelby American Boss 302 blue/white decal set
3. 1970 Jim Hall Camaro white/blue decal set
4. 1970 Sam Posey Challenger green/black decal set

Any questions, please let me know. Thanks a bunch!

Jay
Hey Jay,

Sent you a PM a few days ago and I just wanted to make sure that you received it.

Mike
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Old 02-04-2008, 01:47 PM   #365
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I think the rules set out are good but each track is going to have their own resistance due to what is being run currently and the cost to get a TA car started. The problem at our track is that it is very heavy lipo/brushless. So to use the USTA rules exclusively, guys will go (and are going) 4 cell 17.5 for the most part. That's $125 dollars for one pack and the motor because no one had a 17.5 and few have batteries. So with the body and tires you are looking at $200 to get going. Guys pulling out old retired Nimh's have found they have no chance against the new batteries. That's what has people appealed with lipo/Stinger or stick pack/Johnson. So most having lipo that means a $17 stinger or $40 for Stick pack/Johnson combo... max. Add on the body/wheels and you are at around $100 or a little over. Also a popular class is the Mini which we run with stick packs and silver cans, therefore that is appealing because guys have them. Our rules won't be totally set until the next race season which is why we are experimenting with different things. Probably by that time everyone will be in compliance with the USTA rules but until then we are leaving some flexibility as long as there is not an advantage.
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Old 02-04-2008, 02:51 PM   #366
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Since ROAR is going to 17.5 as the stock motor, a lot of people will be buying new motors, period.

I think the thing that is a problem is we are in a transition period right now, and no matter what class you race, everybody has ideas based on 10 different combos. I hope that once things calm down a bit technology wise, we can all get on the same page.

The one thing I do encourage is that everyone try to stay close to the USVTA rules. I think that will help the class grow. If you can go to any track, and also race at big events with the car you have, that will be a great thing.
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Old 02-04-2008, 03:58 PM   #367
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We ran our first meeting on Saturday night to great success. Every heat all the people in the pits dropped their tool and came out to watch the action n the track. Close racing with about half the field the others I think still need to work on setup. We had a few suprise drivers that came to the front that usually are not the "A Main" guys

A few comments about cheater motors have started popping up today here on Tech and a little education has to happen at the same time. Car setup is even more critical with a fixed gear rule. Also vltg becomes key at that point, good and bad I agree but I also think with 4cell you can say the same thing. Look at 12 scale stock at any National race. You will see top cells in every car that have 1-2 runs on them.

I understand the frustrations with the rules deviations but as stated above. Old 4cells suck as much as old 6 cells, Having to buy Nimh's or the equipment to charge them sucks.
We also have had alot of people moving on from NiMH and to go back would kill the class before it began here.
We put in a fixed gear ratio to try and combat this a bit. It worked ok but is not the entire answer. We may play with someting else.

On the National side whatever rules pkg you put in place people will abide by. Regionally tracks should be free to adjust to tailor the program to their clients and get the interest going.
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Old 02-04-2008, 04:37 PM   #368
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On the National side whatever rules pkg you put in place people will abide by. Regionally tracks should be free to adjust to tailor the program to their clients and get the interest going.
No doubt. As I said, it's going to be hard for a while as things take their course.

I hope people try to stay close to the rules, but as you have shown, *first you have to get the cars on the track* Bravo
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Old 02-04-2008, 06:31 PM   #369
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This is a little off the wall, but has anyone ever tried out the speed of a lathe motor on 7.4v ? Integy has 35, 45, ....to 85t single motors. As long as heat isn't a problem, this should certainly calm down the speeds even on six cells.

Apex you have a pm. Add another track!!
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Old 02-04-2008, 07:02 PM   #370
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As easy as Lipos are becoming, especially with ROAR approving them, I'd love to find something that's more then fair that works with this technology. I hope my local track will allow me to experiment with motors and gear ratios. The last thing I want to do is ruin the pure intent of the class. I'm looking at that 21.5 motor for starters.
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Old 02-04-2008, 07:07 PM   #371
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This is a little off the wall, but has anyone ever tried out the speed of a lathe motor on 7.4v ? Integy has 35, 45, ....to 85t single motors. As long as heat isn't a problem, this should certainly calm down the speeds even on six cells.

Apex you have a pm. Add another track!!
Obviously with the need for something potentially even slower than a 27T stock motor, this might be a great idea. My only concern with thatólike the 21.5 Novak crawler brushless motorówas widespread availability. Unfortunately, with ROAR recently announcing it's new National rules for stock class, the widespread availability of the 17.5 has become almost as difficult.

It's tough to walk the line between common and easily available parts and getting the speeds where they need to be for this class. It's very apparent that with the instant reaction on a wide scale to this class that many things are really wanted for electric road racing: slower speeds, more competitive racing, realistic looking cars and lower overall costs. With LiPos and brushless motors leading the way in that last category over the long haul, something will definitely need to be done to integrate them all into this class.

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Old 02-04-2008, 07:23 PM   #372
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Originally Posted by sportpak View Post
As easy as Lipos are becoming, especially with ROAR approving them, I'd love to find something that's more then fair that works with this technology. I hope my local track will allow me to experiment with motors and gear ratios. The last thing I want to do is ruin the pure intent of the class. I'm looking at that 21.5 motor for starters.
We're on the same page, for sure. However, we need to make sure that we don't go too far too fast with this class and make it too complicated before it ever really gets off the ground. Personally, I'd rather run a 21.5 and a LiPo pack in my car. We do want to make sure that this class doesn't become a catch-all for every one-off power combo idea that is out there, while maintaining a fair and level playing field.

We took some heat initially for allowing the brushless motors to be in the same class as the brushed stock motors, but all of us felt that it was the best for the class as a whole in the long run. Yes, it does make the rules more complicated, and changes what can and can't be done by a racer to make a fast car. It also is very difficult to monitor the actual differences from track to trackóit looks as though the brushless motors have a distinct advantage on a small track, where brushed motors tuned properly are the motor of choice on a larger track. Generally though, water will seek it's own level.

Should this class have been ALL 21.5 on LiPos to begin with? Maybe, but you can't unring a bell, and as it stood there were many racers already competing on a weekly basis with cars very different from that. We didn't want to alienate that group right off the bat.

I do plan on testing a 21.5 on LiPo in the near future, versus what we have all been running for the last few months. We get into weight issues, too, as strangely enough, my Orion 3600 7.4v LiPo pack is lighter than my IP4300 4-cell pack by a whopping 75 grams. It will take another detailed effort to make sure that everything stays fair for all options.


But yes, as long-winded as that was, the 21.5/LiPo option is a heavily discussed topic for this class.




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Old 02-04-2008, 07:37 PM   #373
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I put together a squad car to add some excitement for the local spectators at our track. Heres a picture. It is a working light bar. BTW, the cops took 2nd in the A last Saturday. LOL.
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Old 02-04-2008, 08:01 PM   #374
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We're on the same page, for sure. However, we need to make sure that we don't go too far too fast with this class and make it too complicated before it ever really gets off the ground. Personally, I'd rather run a 21.5 and a LiPo pack in my car. We do want to make sure that this class doesn't become a catch-all for every one-off power combo idea that is out there, while maintaining a fair and level playing field.

We took some heat initially for allowing the brushless motors to be in the same class as the brushed stock motors, but all of us felt that it was the best for the class as a whole in the long run. Yes, it does make the rules more complicated, and changes what can and can't be done by a racer to make a fast car. It also is very difficult to monitor the actual differences from track to trackóit looks as though the brushless motors have a distinct advantage on a small track, where brushed motors tuned properly are the motor of choice on a larger track. Generally though, water will seek it's own level.

Should this class have been ALL 21.5 on LiPos to begin with? Maybe, but you can't unring a bell, and as it stood there were many racers already competing on a weekly basis with cars very different from that. We didn't want to alienate that group right off the bat.

I do plan on testing a 21.5 on LiPo in the near future, versus what we have all been running for the last few months. We get into weight issues, too, as strangely enough, my Orion 3600 7.4v LiPo pack is lighter than my IP4300 4-cell pack by a whopping 75 grams. It will take another detailed effort to make sure that everything stays fair for all options.


But yes, as long-winded as that was, the 21.5/LiPo option is a heavily discussed topic for this class.




doug
I understand moving slow. Most importantly, we need to keep our eye on the "greater good" of the class. That makes us put personal preference aside. I hope a 21.5/lipo is in our future. For now, I don't intend to push it. We just started our class. We're not cracking down too tight on the current rules. We want people to sort of try it, let them decide if they want to go whole hog. Too much BS makes people make their mind up before they've even tried it. One day out and we all had a blast. Once we all get on the same page I hope we can really take off with it.
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Old 02-04-2008, 08:05 PM   #375
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I put together a squad car to add some excitement for the local spectators at our track. Heres a picture. It is a working light bar. BTW, the cops took 2nd in the A last Saturday. LOL.
Can you send me a link to where you bought the lightbar? Do you know if there is a blue one?
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