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Old 12-10-2008, 08:38 PM   #3616
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Originally Posted by BIG JIM WOODMAN View Post
Korea makes them as well.
Isn't that where Kokham makes their cells?
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Old 12-10-2008, 08:42 PM   #3617
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That was going to be my question...if the guy winning is running some well worked over 27t motors or just has the timing cranked on his 17.5 motor.


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don't pick on speedster too bad for the 27/17.5 lipo 6cell. we do run a gear ratio like the 21.5 lipo rule. we just don't have anybody running 4cells and most guys had the 17.5 or 27t

as his race director yep that's me. I believe that the VTA class at our track should police themselves to some extent in club racing as it's suppose to be a fun class. if someone is cheating to win the VTA class he's a bigger loser then you running legal and getting beat. that's like cartment winning the special olympics. the guy he's running against isn't fast (every race I have run the guy I have lapped him but one that I completely blew out on.) he just spends a lot on getting his brushed motors done. I know because I tru them. and he spends a lot of money to get good 27t motors. he's bought like 7 or 8 from me. again not in the spirit but he takes TA competively. we are trying to get hime to stick in the foam 13.5 class that we have. but he has fun beating people by a lap, go figure.

again I believe that the spirit of the VTA class is right with the motors that they run accept the 21.5 but that has been beat to death here already. it's still a fact that a well tuned 27t is going to be faster then a 17.5 and a good lipo pack will push a 21.5 to the front anyday drivers being equal. and if the track thinks that there is an advantage to one or the other motor they regulate it which is within the rules. at this point with this flow don't debate the motors as it's doug's rules and to some extent they are working.

the debate that should be going on is VTA a class for competive racing diehards that are always looking for that 2 or 3 tenths. and what equipment is considered working too hard on your VTA.
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Old 12-10-2008, 08:43 PM   #3618
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thanks Robert.

You know I've asked to run the official rules many times.. but it's not what works for our area/track...and entries pay rent.

Sorry to stir up a mess....I'm just going to buy a slash...they have less rules.
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Old 12-10-2008, 10:24 PM   #3619
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Look I know that its easy to offend and get offended in forums like this when its hard to know how to take some of whats been said. But if your local club is running 17.5s and 27turns with lipos then more power to ya. I still think its good that you check in here and know what the national scene is doing. At least you know what to expect when you go to another track. I still think VTA is best run slower than stock TC, but Im glad that it works for you.

Please dont shy away from VTA just because of what you see in here.

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Old 12-10-2008, 10:34 PM   #3620
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Originally Posted by snoopyrc View Post
I still think VTA is best run slower than stock TC, but Im glad that it works for you. '
we are running slower then TC we have a gear ratio to use for the 17.5/27 6cell/lipo TA cars (one for 27t and one for 17.5) and I have turned faster laps with 4cell 17.5 then they can with lipo 27t. the cars even have to weigh more then the 4cell cars in keeping with the spirit of VTA which does give them a traction edge but also makes the cars easier to balance. it's like GTP 4cyl turbo vs v8 carbs
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Old 12-11-2008, 07:47 AM   #3621
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it looks like we will be using the usvta rules for our vintage class in 09 here in memphis. we are thinking of adding one other motor battery option. we want to add black or silver (haven't decide) can tamiya with six cell nickles or 2s lipos. we will set the fdr of course...........any of you wizards of smarts have an idea what that fdr might look like? we were going to go by trial and error but with the brain power here someone might have a good idea what might work best.
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Old 12-11-2008, 07:53 AM   #3622
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I've wanted to the official rules from the start and this mess is partly why. So I'm retiring from our v8carb class unless the official rules are picked up...I don't expect them to, I gave up trying before... The other racers love it, it's bringing in new racers and it's best for me to leave it alone.

sorry if anyone thinking about getting into ta was influenced by my crap and turns away. that was not my intent and you should not let that stop you. VTA (any flavor) is great fun and I wish it the best.
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Old 12-11-2008, 08:50 AM   #3623
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Originally Posted by frankrehnelt View Post
it looks like we will be using the usvta rules for our vintage class in 09 here in memphis. we are thinking of adding one other motor battery option. we want to add black or silver (haven't decide) can tamiya with six cell nickles or 2s lipos. we will set the fdr of course...........any of you wizards of smarts have an idea what that fdr might look like? we were going to go by trial and error but with the brain power here someone might have a good idea what might work best.
We've been running silver cans up until now and are starting the transition over to USVTA rules. A silver can at about 5.5-5.7 seems to be a fairly close match, and would probably be a good starting point. Adjust from there according to your track. I ran 21.5/lipo last race and came in third in a field where everyone else ran silver cans.
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Old 12-11-2008, 08:59 AM   #3624
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Nevermind
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Old 12-11-2008, 10:08 AM   #3625
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankrehnelt View Post
it looks like we will be using the usvta rules for our vintage class in 09 here in memphis. we are thinking of adding one other motor battery option. we want to add black or silver (haven't decide) can tamiya with six cell nickles or 2s lipos. we will set the fdr of course...........any of you wizards of smarts have an idea what that fdr might look like? we were going to go by trial and error but with the brain power here someone might have a good idea what might work best.
When we first started a few guys ran and we allowed Traxxas Stingers and lipos. This was before the 21.5 was allowed and the 17.5 FDR restriction was lifted. At that time around a 6.2 worked pretty well. So I would tend to think reenmachine's suggested gearing would be about right - I would have said around a 5.7.
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Old 12-11-2008, 01:06 PM   #3626
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Can't remember, Silver can faster or slower than 27t?
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Old 12-11-2008, 01:15 PM   #3627
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Can't remember, Silver can faster or slower than 27t?
Much slower.
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Old 12-11-2008, 01:29 PM   #3628
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Can't remember, Silver can faster or slower than 27t?
I've got a sample size of exactly one (only made one race when I was there) but the Silver Can on LiPo (or 6-cell) is pretty darn close to 27T on 4-cell, speed wise. Wasn't doing any super-scientific tests or anything, but gut feeling was they were pretty close.
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Old 12-11-2008, 01:36 PM   #3629
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We run USTA rules here in Hawaii with the exception of 2 hole silver can kit motors and NIMH 3800 stick packs. The racing is super close and no one has a clear advantage, its ANYBODY's race. We use this as a "stepping stone" class for folks new to the hobby. Usually, its our biggest class. It also makes it possible for the casual racer to beat the "fast guys".

Not to mention, the cars just look so frigg'n cool!!!
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Old 12-11-2008, 01:46 PM   #3630
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Quote:
Can't remember, Silver can faster or slower than 27t?
I guess the best response is

The SILVER can motor is SLOWER than a 27t Brushed motor on EQUAL Voltage. In a TC with a LIPO or a 6 cell the Silver can runs similar to a 27t on 4 cells. Similar to a 21.5 motor the Silver can motors have a very low RPM, but they DON'T have the power of the 21.5
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