R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Like Tree1Likes
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-26-2008, 10:13 AM   #3466
Tech Champion
 
Scottrik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 6,212
Trader Rating: 245 (100%+)
Default

Has there been any more consideration/testing to establish a new fdr limit for the 21.5/LiPo combo for the smaller tracks we run indoors? What I'm hearing from folks is that the new combo has a distinct advantage (I'm hearing + or - a half second advantage) on these tighter tracks with shorter straights where the additional voltage (torque) of the LiPo is able to offset the top speed difference the fdr limit creates for them.

Thanks,

Scottrik
__________________
Congressmen should wear uniforms like NASCAR drivers so we can identify their corporate sponsors.

THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT BE TELEVISED -Gil Scott-Heron (1949-2011)
Scottrik is offline  
Old 11-26-2008, 11:02 AM   #3467
Tech Elite
 
reenmachine's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Studio City, CA
Posts: 2,539
Trader Rating: 26 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
Read the Slash rules tread in the off road section.

It would just be nice to get some standard amoung the tracks.

Even in my area the closest 2 off road tracks running different 'spec' Slash rules.

This wasn't meant as serious, guess just venting frustration.
I'll check it out. We've been running Slash on the off-road, dirt oval, and even the on-road track out here without too much controversy. Bone stock except for tx/rx and fluids and whoever doesn't like it can pound sand.
__________________
Pete Waydo
2010 Big Fat Turkey Race Mini Cooper AAA Main Champion
*** currently in stasis ***
reenmachine is offline  
Old 11-26-2008, 12:26 PM   #3468
Tech Champion
 
robk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Macho Business Donkey Wrestler
Posts: 7,588
Trader Rating: 22 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by StoneMan View Post
I spotted somewhere (I think) number decals and dots with the VTA logo.
If they're still available can someone direct me to where I can purchase some?
PM "wallstreet" here on rctech. He has a good selection of numbers.
__________________
A mutually re-enforcing cascade of failure

"Failior [sic] crowns enterprise." Robert Goddard

I-Lap Scoring Systems http://www.rclapcounter.com/
robk is offline  
Old 11-26-2008, 01:18 PM   #3469
Tech Master
 
g12314's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Chicago, IL.
Posts: 1,282
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to g12314 Send a message via Yahoo to g12314
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottrik View Post
Has there been any more consideration/testing to establish a new fdr limit for the 21.5/LiPo combo for the smaller tracks we run indoors? What I'm hearing from folks is that the new combo has a distinct advantage (I'm hearing + or - a half second advantage) on these tighter tracks with shorter straights where the additional voltage (torque) of the LiPo is able to offset the top speed difference the fdr limit creates for them.

Thanks,

Scottrik
I dont think we'll see a rule change based on differing track sizes, but the rules do state:

"If any one power choice shows a definitive advantage at a certain track, it is up to the race management to even the racing out via suggested gearing changes."

So if a local track is seeing a large delta between 21.5/lipo and the other power plants they should set a FDR limit which evens the playing field at their facility.

As a data point, the first leg of the Great Lakes T/A series was run on a small track with a tighter layout. 4.6-4.8 FDR seemed to work very well (ie FAST). With gearing of 4.3 I was slower since it lacked the punch out of the corners.

Jimmy
__________________
"PREPARE TO QUALIFY"
g12314 is offline  
Old 11-27-2008, 11:01 AM   #3470
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 401
Trader Rating: 7 (100%+)
Default

Where can we get the VTA T-shirts?
NUCRPTRACER is offline  
Old 11-27-2008, 11:07 AM   #3471
Tech Master
 
dodgeboy's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: nj
Posts: 1,174
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to dodgeboy Send a message via Yahoo to dodgeboy
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NUCRPTRACER View Post
Where can we get the VTA T-shirts?
http://www.usvintagetransam.com/
__________________
http://www.bodiesbybean.com/gallery.cfm?partyid=30
Email [email protected]
www.sixfoottiger.com race team
Pm or email for info
dodgeboy is offline  
Old 11-27-2008, 03:36 PM   #3472
Tech Adept
 
StoneMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Maple, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 133
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by robk View Post
PM "wallstreet" here on rctech. He has a good selection of numbers.
Thanks for the lead

Wallstreet sent you a PM
StoneMan is offline  
Old 11-27-2008, 10:29 PM   #3473
Tech Elite
 
wallstreet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,904
Trader Rating: 20 (92%+)
Send a message via AIM to wallstreet
Default

PM responded to




Still plenty of stickers to go around guys if you want them
wallstreet is offline  
Old 11-28-2008, 10:21 AM   #3474
Tech Elite
 
chicagokenji's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 4,210
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by g12314 View Post

So if a local track is seeing a large delta between 21.5/lipo and the other power plants they should set a FDR limit which evens the playing field at their facility.
We're now taking a majority of our outdoor TA racers and having them race indoors with our new winter program on carpet.

We'll have our second race of the season this coming Sunday on the carpet.

What should I be watching for as a race director? Straightaway speed, punch in the infield or overall laptimes if I want to make all of the cars about the same performance?

Also, how do I approach an individual racer about their too fast car? Meaning should I ask what their gearing is and ask them to change it politely?

Jimmy...you are a very good racer, how would I approach you if you showed up and you were lapping everyone? I mean a major part of why you'd be lapping a bunch of people would be your driving skill........

Would I look at a race and if all the racers in the qualifier aren't getting marshalled at all, but one or two of the racers are pulling ahead by 30-40 seconds what do I say?

What specifically should I ask a racer to do if their 21.5/Lipo powered car is heads and heels way faster than everyone elses?
chicagokenji is offline  
Old 11-28-2008, 10:52 AM   #3475
Tech Champion
 
RCGaryK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Champaign, IL
Posts: 7,331
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagokenji View Post
We're now taking a majority of our outdoor TA racers and having them race indoors with our new winter program on carpet.

We'll have our second race of the season this coming Sunday on the carpet.

What should I be watching for as a race director? Straightaway speed, punch in the infield or overall laptimes if I want to make all of the cars about the same performance?

Also, how do I approach an individual racer about their too fast car? Meaning should I ask what their gearing is and ask them to change it politely?
Unless something is totally obvious to you, aka blatant cheating, and if you are not running a hard and fast tech then you wait for a racer to approach you and file a complaint.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagokenji View Post
Jimmy...you are a very good racer, how would I approach you if you showed up and you were lapping everyone? I mean a major part of why you'd be lapping a bunch of people would be your driving skill........
You do it politely and ask "You're not below a 4.2 and you're running a 21.5, right?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagokenji View Post
Would I look at a race and if all the racers in the qualifier aren't getting marshalled at all, but one or two of the racers are pulling ahead by 30-40 seconds what do I say?
Damn, those guys are fast!

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagokenji View Post
What specifically should I ask a racer to do if their 21.5/Lipo powered car is heads and heels way faster than everyone elses?
Would you mind if I looked at your car for a moment?

These are the types of things I have to deal with every time I race at the Loft. The racers there are less experienced and, especially when horsepower-limited, can find themselves back in the pack more often than normal. Anytime you mix talent levels you're going to have stuff like this crop up. The guy who finished last and ran all 8-minutes the last time I ran I lapped 17-times in 8 minutes. 17! I turned 50 laps, he did 33. When we have enough cars for multiple mains I'd almost like to see a 110% rule with bump-ups meaning if you weren't within 110% of the TQ then you're not going to be allowed to run in the main. Now there would be obvious exceptions where if someone broke in each qualifier yet was clearly on-pace in the B, then yeah, they'd be allowed to bump. But these are more circumstances that have to do with my home track vs USVTA as a whole.
__________________
Site Content Specialist- Surface
HorizonHobby.Com

Horizon Hobby is on YouTube with hundreds of different videos! Visit us at
http://www.youtube.com/HorizonRCdotCom
RCGaryK is offline  
Old 11-28-2008, 11:27 AM   #3476
Tech Elite
 
chicagokenji's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 4,210
Default

Thanks for the reply Gar.

Our track has a good span between racers too, not 17 laps but a good span.

I'm thinking I shouldn't wait until there's a complaint and be proactive. I see many times that people who are RC racers many times don't want to "confront" with anyone about their feelings. If the whole lot of racers were sales people or lawyers I'm sure we'd have lots of confrontations but gemerally speaking there's more "meek" personalities.

When I ask to "see your car", what specifically should I do if say you are running a 21.5/lipo and are geared at 4.2 and you are leading the pack by 40 seconds?

Which leads me to one more question:

At what specific point should a race director step in?

If there's 12 TA racers and the pack looks like this after a qualifier:

TQ= 36 laps

2nd= 33 laps
3rd= 30

4,5,6= 29

7,8,9,10= 27-28

11,12= 22

At this point with the above scenario I'm pretty much not doing anything.
chicagokenji is offline  
Old 11-28-2008, 11:34 AM   #3477
Tech Champion
 
RCGaryK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Champaign, IL
Posts: 7,331
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagokenji View Post
When I ask to "see your car", what specifically should I do if say you are running a 21.5/lipo and are geared at 4.2 and you are leading the pack by 40 seconds?
Sounds like someone has done their homework. Give them a pat on the back for working within the rules and excelling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagokenji View Post

Which leads me to one more question:

At what specific point should a race director step in?

If there's 12 TA racers and the pack looks like this after a qualifier:

TQ= 36 laps

2nd= 33 laps
3rd= 30

4,5,6= 29

7,8,9,10= 27-28

11,12= 22

At this point with the above scenario I'm pretty much not doing anything.
Run the top 6 in the A, run 7-12 in a B and take 3 bump-ups? As the RD you have the option to tailor your program to how you see fit. For example, while the USVTA itself is not saying to run 6-minute qualifiers I am sure there are some tracks that are/will. I am also sure there are probably a few tracks running 8-minute qualifiers and mains. Do what you think is healthiest for your guys. If your turnout increases where you're getting 10-guys turning 29+ laps and 10-guys turning 28 and lower to where you could even do a Pro USVTA and a Sportsman USVTA to keep the talent levels closer as well.
__________________
Site Content Specialist- Surface
HorizonHobby.Com

Horizon Hobby is on YouTube with hundreds of different videos! Visit us at
http://www.youtube.com/HorizonRCdotCom
RCGaryK is offline  
Old 11-28-2008, 11:55 AM   #3478
Tech Champion
 
liljohn1064's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Deerfield, WI
Posts: 5,582
Trader Rating: 17 (100%+)
Default

What is the rest of the field running also needs to be considered. I'd have one of the more experienced drivers and wrenchers take a look at the other cars. Now that I'm familiar with VTA setup and gearing for my chassis, my driving lets me down. Last week I was only 3 laps off the pace, but not as bad as the 10 laps a week earlier at my first official club race. I also have the advantage of having to set up the same chassis for my son. I get to see what his car does .vs my car, compare and adjust both cars accordingly to what works better. This brings up another good point. It takes at least 4 race weekends or 2 good practice sessions to bring the tires in. This is about 4 batteries worth of run time 8 to 10 minutes at a crack, with cool down, tire cleaning and prep and making sure no carpet fiber is binding anything up. In my case I also check all the bearings. Now that my tires are broken in and the rest of my setup has been confirmed by a much better driver, its all up to me. My times went from high 10s to mid 9s on the same circuit in 1 week. Of course the leader is running average low 9s and fast lap in the high 8s. My goal this week is to average low to mid 9s and try to finish a lap or less down.
__________________
John Higgins former student of The Ian Ruggles Negative Reinforcement Driving School. The "Team Principal".
liljohn1064 is offline  
Old 11-28-2008, 12:29 PM   #3479
Tech Elite
 
SWTour's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Central Coast...CALIF.
Posts: 2,874
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
Default

Kenji,

Something you may want to try with your guys who are really fast vs. the guys who aren't...

Have the fast guy mentor, or work with one of the slower guys to help get him up to speed.

I know it's fun to win a race, but normally WINNERS don't like winning by 10 laps, a true WINNER wants to race for it...cause it's much more satisfying to BEAT a guy who is competitive.

I know in our local group of racers, the FAST GUYS will always work with someone who isn't...and give them SET UP Help, GEARING Help, and even driving tips.
__________________
Joe Myers
R/C Racing since 1985 ~ Santa Maria, CA (Central Coast)
2001-2012 - South-West Tour R/C Oval Series...will the SWT be revived?
Things are headed towards a return of the SWT Series, but for
2017 the focus will be on the Encino Velodrome (and dirt oval racing)
SWTour is offline  
Old 11-28-2008, 01:04 PM   #3480
Tech Fanatic
 
414MPH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 987
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Default

Kenji,

I would say it all depends on how well their chassis is "WORKING" when on track. As an example, in the 8 weeks of our season I went from TQ's to struggling to make the A and back to TQ's. All with the same motor, battery and gearing. The things that changed were my tires, the available traction of the carpet and my chassis set-up. If the chassis is bound up, tweeked or out of balance, I can instantly go 2 laps off pace week to week. My state of mind can add or subtract also.

It is no surprise that when the car has great corner speed and has consistent handling the lap times drop dramatically. You need to watch straight speed as well as corner speed and punch out of the corner. At the Hurricaine race in Madison, the top guys (21.5/Lipo) were geared 4.2x and 5.0x, two ends of extremes. They both were very much faster then the rest of the field with fast laps .3 to .5 seconds faster then the rest of the fast guys in the A.

SWT' hit the nail on the head when he suggested the fast guys help the less fast guys. That is what leads to the best racing and most fun.

To sum it up, gearing ain't everything to going fast with a 21.5/lipo in a Trans-Am. The real key is getting the car to work for you so you are comfortable and can go fast.

Marty (The Father of Vintage Trans-AM.)
414MPH is offline  
Closed Thread

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Georgia Vintage Trans Am Racing shadow102 Georgia Racing 725 02-24-2012 09:56 AM
Vintage Trans Am Scottrik Electric On-Road 47 02-24-2012 08:21 AM
Vintage Trans-Am TC hlpressley R/C Items: Wanted to Buy 5 10-23-2008 04:00 PM
Thursday Vintage Trans Am racing at Victory in Green Bay Brian F Wisconsin & Illinois Racing 13 05-10-2008 08:37 AM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 04:50 AM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net