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Old 11-19-2008, 03:36 PM   #3316
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I believe second place at the gate was a TC3 with a 27 turn motor and a 65 mustang body. first place ran the parma shoebox (cuda), run whatever body you want it really doesn't make a difference. Its all whatever you have lying around.
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Old 11-19-2008, 03:36 PM   #3317
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One small word added to the rules could change this class dramatically, 100% in line with the "spirit" of USVTA:

"Four Wheel Drive touring car TUB chassis only."
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Old 11-19-2008, 03:39 PM   #3318
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One small word added to the rules could change this class dramatically, 100% in line with the "spirit" of USVTA:

"Four Wheel Drive touring car TUB chassis only."
...would be damn nice..... But from what I'm hearing, the type of chassis or go-power choice doesn't give performance advantage in V-TA ...lol..
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Old 11-19-2008, 03:47 PM   #3319
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Not for the most part bro...Just check the results of most of the trophy races...Ask the "better" drivers what they are driving. V-TA is filling with serious Tour Car Racers. They're not bringing down TC-3s to get wins. Ask the better drivers what body shells they use in the big vintage ta races. Ask what go-power (motor/battery) is being used to get consistent wins. You're not going to hear 27T 4cells...Remember, not the rare or exceptional stuff. We're talking on a large scale basis, which is what sells the class to new racers or racers interested. Results tell it all Bro.
Well maybe but see that doesn't matter to me, Not into going to big trophy races. As long as it happening at the club level and it does, I'm fine.

As far as the 27t/4 Cell, wel since I had to buy everything new, I started with 21.5/Lipo. I like the idea of 1 $80 pack that out lasts the other choice- 4-5 $30 packs
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Old 11-19-2008, 03:51 PM   #3320
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Slow down, guys. Take a deep breath.

ROAR inclusion of the VTA rules in their package only means that it will be available to National and Regional ROAR events. ROAR doesn't dictate to most clubs or tracks—the rules are organized "suggestions" so that everyone can be on the same page—which is what the USVTA rules are.

Here's how it will work:
  • ROAR Nationals and Regionals are 21.5/LiPo only, with an open 21.5 ROAR-spec rule.
  • USVTA-affiliated tracks and clubs will likely continue to use the UVSTA rules package, and not mess with success.
ROAR cannot say, "must run Novak motors and HPI tires & wheels" but we can, because, well... I can do whatever I want and not worry about offending any one company. What they will do is suggest the outline of the rules for clubs follow our pattern, so that whenever a rule is changed or altered on the USVTA side, they are changed with ROAR as well. It's a pretty great symbiotic relationship, actually. We get more growth and exposure, and they get a National class that will draw big numbers and lots of spectator interest.

No panic needed. USVTA will not be adopting an open motor policy anytime soon. Before we EVER allow other 21.5s next year, there will be extenisve testing with each motor in various cars at various tracks with various drivers to make sure there is no competitive advantage. I want the cars no faster than they already are.


And for anyone who is using the results sheets to see that the "fast guys" are winning with the most current equipment, that's a flawed arguement. When was the last time you saw any fast guy using old junk in any class? But I guarantee you, if I built a low-buck plastic tub car with off the shelf electronics, and gave it to Brad Johnson, Eli Ezrow or any of the "fast guys" in the country now picking up Trans Am cars, they'd kick your ass every way 'til Saturday with it.

You don't need current, top shelf equipment, but when other TC classes are dying off left and right, there are a LOT of good cars just waiting to be Trans Am-ified.
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Old 11-19-2008, 03:51 PM   #3321
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Originally Posted by DJ919 View Post
Just highly competitive Tour Car racing on a Slower pace with muscle car tribute body shells.
I belive this is the whole point of Vintage Trans Am.

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After reading the last 3 or 4 pages, reading about timing, tinkering, changing this, breaking in that, gearing this, this esc, that esc, this chassis, that chassis, etc...etc..? If I'm a NEW racer looking for that cheap dollar friendly class in which all I have to do is develop driving skills to do well, right now I wouldn't see Vintage TA as that class. I'd see it as yet another highly competitive racing class in which MOST are trying to be faster than MOST. I'd see another class in which YES, in order to be among the fast runners, you have to spend Bigger Bucks for better equipment! Driving skills will only get you half way there. This stuff isn't as cheap as its being stated to be. I don't see racers with budget radios beating racers with high end radios...I don't see racers with budget 27t stockers and affordable cells beating racers with 21.5 BLs and big dollar lipos. In MOST cases I don't see racers with old out-dated tubbed chassis beating racers with the latest race engineered high-end chassis.
Yes, you do have to learn how to tune your car to be competitive, but most everyone is more than happy to share tips and ideas. But instead of getting run over by 13.5 sedans, you can learn at your own pace with a controlled set of rules/specs and buy equipment as you need it. Also, most of the chassis I've seen mentioned are TC3's and Tamiya TA05's....hardly any mention of Xray 008's, Associated TC5R's, Corally Phi's, etc. With the right tuning and skill, a TC3 can smoke any "modern" chassis in this class. With the lack of power from any of the motor/battery combos, you do not need to worry about the throttle expo's, sub trim's, etc.... that you lack with a basic radio. I think what you might be seeing most is a racer like myself....I already had nice equipment from previous years racing r/c, so that's what I'm going to use. There is no sense for me to go out and buy basic stuff just because I'm running T/A. All I used to hear when running sedans was "you have to get this, you have to get that to keep up", now with T/A it's "where's your roll center, what shock oil are you running, how loose are your belts".... THAT is the biggest difference with T/A.

What you said was very well put, but I GREATLY disagree with you on the issue of cost. Anyone can compete on a budget, and this class is for everyone from beginner to expert....that's why week in and week out it draws the most entrys at my local track. Besides, there is no other class where the cars still look like real cars, and that's the best part.

This class was intended for realism and close competition, and T/A hits the nail on the head.
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Old 11-19-2008, 03:57 PM   #3322
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Well maybe but see that doesn't matter to me, Not into going to big trophy races. As long as it happening at the club level and it does, I'm fine.

As far as the 27t/4 Cell, wel since I had to buy everything new, I started with 21.5/Lipo. I like the idea of 1 $80 pack that out lasts the other choice- 4-5 $30 packs
I hear ya bro...me too, but now that its known on a more consistent, proven scale, most are going for the 21.5 because in "most" cases its the go power to have if you want to contend or be up to speed. More of a Racers point view. Now the smart buy enthusiasts point of view is exactly what you just stated. In the long run Lipo/BL is the better choice. Good point!
For those talking about well tuned 27turns with 4 cells can keep up, that is only in regards to the "experienced" usually highly competive racers that know the ins and outs of tuning. These are the exceptional, and they're not the average joe rc enthusiast/hobby guy or gal that V-TA originally targeted as its main demographic. In most cases these exceptionals are the racers that come from the tour car ranks and were successful within those ranks. They bring that same successful , competitive nature to V-TA. Which by all means is cool to me.

Racer X : I'll give you that, I may be wrong about the whole cost thing...I raced offroad on a major budget back in the day and was beating big money racers. I see your point there. But I'm talking more on the terms of the competitive turning point in which V-TA is taking be it un-willing or not. Seriously, if you read the latest pages, they don't seem to be talking about fun aspects. They're talking about competitive aspects and what to do to be faster in order to perform better and get wins...Now there may be those still here that says those things don't matter, and this class is just meant to be fun, but hey..lol...just read...You find the same talkings in the most competitive tour car threads. Again, I have NO problem with this, just a point.
Guys, Thanks for keeping this a NO FLAME talk and keeping it mature like it suppose to be All points, replies and opinions well put and well taken.
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Old 11-19-2008, 04:05 PM   #3323
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I'm new to racing, I have the latest expensive equipment (zero self control), the driving skills of most people's grandmothers (but getting better - almost up to a distracted mom in a minivan), and I'm getting it handed to me by a kid half my age.

All of this put together is still awesome and fun, it's still competitive at my track, but ball busting fun competitive. I want that kid to be faster than me, it gives me something to aim for.

Plus, I can't afford a real '68 Camaro. I'm pretty sure I'll be starting to race in my track's stock class shortly, but I won't until I buy another chassis to keep racing VTA.

By the way - all hobbies are expensive, it's just the way it is. Go pick up a new set of clubs, a decent fishing reel, or a $300 chrome cap the size of a quarter for a Harley.
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Old 11-19-2008, 04:13 PM   #3324
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Originally Posted by DJ919 View Post
I hear ya bro...me too, but now that its known on a more consistent, proven scale, most are going for the 21.5 because in "most" cases its the go power to have if you want to contend or be up to speed. More of a Racers point view. Now the smart buy enthusiasts point of view is exactly what you just stated. In the long run Lipo/BL is the better choice. Good point!
For those talking about well tuned 27turns with 4 cells can keep up, that is only in regards to the "experienced" usually highly competive racers that know the ins and outs of tuning. These are the exceptional, and they're not the average joe rc enthusiast/hobby guy or gal that V-TA originally targeted as its main demographic. In most cases these exceptionals are the racers that come from the tour car ranks and were successful within those ranks. They bring that same successful , competitive nature to V-TA. Which by all means is cool to me.

Racer X : I'll give you that, I may be wrong about the whole cost thing...I raced offroad on a major budget back in the day and was beating big money racers. I see your point there. But I'm talking more on the terms of the competitive turning point in which V-TA is taking be it un-willing or not. Seriously, if you read the latest pages, they don't seem to be talking about fun aspects. They're talking about competitive aspects and what to do to be faster in order to perform better and get wins...Now there may be those still here that says those things don't matter, and this class is just meant to be fun, but hey..lol...just read...You find the same talkings in the most competitive tour car threads. Again, I have NO problem with this, just a point.
Guys, Thanks for keeping this a NO FLAME talk and keeping it mature like it suppose to be All points, replies and opinions well put and well taken.
By the same token though, they aren't getting blow away, so they can get in on the cheap, race and have fun.

I have a couple 27t motors Andrew Gray worked on for me back in the day. My son will be running those, but with 8 year old 2000 Nicads, but hey he's 6, so the choice being in the rules allows me to get him started without the cost of a full brushless/lipo set up
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Old 11-19-2008, 04:33 PM   #3325
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Vintage Trans Am Enthusiasts;

I know this post is probably a bit "off-topic" - so please forgive me for that. I simply want to get your opinions on something. It may be a topic that's already been addressed ? - I simply don't know.

Before I get into it I just want to say that I think the whole Vintage TransAm trend in RC has been very cool indeed. It may not appear so (because of the products I design), but I really do like the realism and attention to detail that you guys have made an integral part of your classes.
Keep it up guys!


OK - last night I watched the live SPEED TV show where they unveiled the 2010 Mustang. It was pretty darn nice. So - that means that in just a very few months there will be 3 all new pony cars, the Camaro, the Challenger and the Mustang.
QUESTION: do you think there would be a place in the RC landscape to race these body styles? Maybe even an all new class in your series for retro looking 2009/2010 ponycars - ya know, done up just like the Trans Am car of the early 70's?
Please understand that I would not want to do anything to hurt or dilute the movement you've got going with "Vintage" looking cars. But - it just seems waste to have these awsome looking new body styles and not figure out a way of racing them somehow. Know what I mean? I'm talking about "realistic looking" 2009/2010 ponycars that have the "spirit" and look of the the 70's T/A racers. I've been thinking about this for about 6 months months already - then I went to the SEMA show in Vegas - and wow - there in the GM display was a Mark Donahue lookalike Sunoco Camaro - but it was the all new 2009 version. It blew my mind. Just EXACTLY what I'd been dreaming about!

I just wanted to get your opinions. Good idea? Or do you think it would somehow affect the "Vintage T/A" movement in a negative way? I'd never want to do anything to put a damper on what you guys have got going on. It's just too cool.

Thanks for your consideration and opinions.

Dale Epp - Protoform Race Bodies
Attached Thumbnails
U.S. Vintage Trans-Am Racing-sunoco-camaro-racecar.jpg   U.S. Vintage Trans-Am Racing-sunoco-camarorear-angle.jpg   U.S. Vintage Trans-Am Racing-mustang-2101-2.jpg   U.S. Vintage Trans-Am Racing-mustang-2010.jpg   U.S. Vintage Trans-Am Racing-dodge_challenger09.jpg  


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Old 11-19-2008, 04:46 PM   #3326
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Dale,
Are there any plans of Protoform making any VTA Bodies?????
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Old 11-19-2008, 04:46 PM   #3327
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Hey Dale, those bodies would have a home in a class like RCGT. The newer mustang "GTRs" are already a popular body shell in that class. Check out the RCGT threads here on RCtech...They're in the Racing Forums.
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Old 11-19-2008, 04:48 PM   #3328
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Dale, as far as the new cars, I don't how well that would go over. What I do know is that you would be everyones hero if you could produce a '67-'73 Firebird, '68-'70 AMX, '70-73 Camaro, or a '69-'70 Mustang(maybe a Cougar too?) in the great quality like you guys have done with your other bodies.
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Old 11-19-2008, 04:52 PM   #3329
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Dale,

There is a group out in Southern California that is doing this type of racing. I'd suggest taking a look at them....

Here's a link to their inaugural race event for this new class. http://www.rctech.net/forum/racing-f...-showdown.html

Back to USVTA now... Part of the fun for me is tinkering with my setups to see how many 10ths of a second I can pickup. I haven't raced this class yet, but plan on building up my xxx-s for the Billings (the co-father?mother? of this class) race at the end of February.

Within my group of local racers, there are a couple of guys who I routinely battle with and in many cases, our races are determined by less than a second. That 1/10th makes a big difference!!

Lastly, I will be introducing this class at our paved track next spring. I'm hoping a few of our guys who aren't comfortable running mod will jump on board.

Paul
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Old 11-19-2008, 04:53 PM   #3330
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Hi Dale-
Obviously you've been following this thread since you knew you had to start with a long-winded disclaimer about not wanting to dilute the class!

I have two answers:

1) (flame worthy answer) At the club level, a lot of tracks have opened up the body rules a bit. We, for example, use a guideline of pre-1975-ish bodies, with the caveat that they must still be in period-correct livery. So there are some vintage NASCAR tributes, a nice Superbird, etc. I can see a place for the modern ponycar bodies in a situation such as that.

2) Here in socal at least, RCGT is getting really big. It's 17.5/lipo with pretty much any REALISTIC body (like HPI & Tamiya bodies). It's a mix of everything, and a lot of guys run late-model ponycar bodies like the HPI Mustang GT-R. The bodies you describe would be great for that class, which is another up-and-comer.

Please don't take anything I wrote in 2 about realism as a comment on Protoform bodies. I am a big fan of your work!
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