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Old 11-12-2008, 11:23 AM   #3181
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I think there are going to be quite a few of the older chassis parked when the 27T motor gets dropped -- some of the older chassis (like my old Yokomo MR-4TC just don't have the motor adjustment to get the big gears on if you need to get into the 4.2 to 5.0 FDR with the 21.5 motor.
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Old 11-12-2008, 11:39 AM   #3182
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team goodwrench, have you looked into prs spur and pinion gears, they have pinions upto 60tooth and spurs down to 72 and that is all 64 pitch.

You should have no trouble getting the gear onto the car, might not be the easiest thing, but I am sure there is a way.
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Old 11-12-2008, 11:40 AM   #3183
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Originally Posted by liljohn1064 View Post
Amen!
+1
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Old 11-12-2008, 11:43 AM   #3184
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Originally Posted by snoopyrc View Post
Im all in.

Team Goodwrench. I had the same thing happen to me when I tried to put a 12scale spur on a serpent. I cant get the motor close enough, and I cant find a pinion big enough to let me use a bigger spur and have the gear I want.
Just out of interest, how big of a pinion and spur and what gear ratio? I had issues with my cars having about an 1 1/8" distance from motor shaft to the center of the spur. I had to order from PRS to get to my 88/52.
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Old 11-12-2008, 12:04 PM   #3185
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I just wish the FDR limit would have been lower so that I could keep running my old Yokomo with 21.5 LiPo -- I can only fit gears in it to get to a 5.40 FDR -- no way I could get to a 4.2 with it.

Oh well... I have a new TA05 on the way for VTA :-)

Good choice! TA05 is a good 21.5/lipo car
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Old 11-12-2008, 12:08 PM   #3186
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I agree that getting rid of the 27t/4 cell option would be a bad idea. For anyone new to the class it's very cheap and easy way to get started, and with proper gearing/chassis setup/driving you can have a very competive car. Everyone needs to rember that unless your lap times are within .1-.4 tenths of each other for the whole race, no amount of power will help....consistancy is the key, and that comes from practice and setup.

As far as the 21.5 stuff goes, I might be wrong, but hasn't the Novak 21.5 SS been the only legal motor the whole time? If so, why is there such a debate over the issue? If you've been running a lipo in T/A you already have one, and if you want to run a lipo you know which one to get. I think it's a good rule to allow only 1 brand of brushless motor, because it elimates the "flavor of the week" syndrome that some racers fall into. The brushless stuff is way too $$$$ for that.

Just my opinion........
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Old 11-12-2008, 12:15 PM   #3187
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Here's my perspective on keeping the 27T in the rules, even if it becomes obsolete.

First, "obsolete" is in the eye of the beholder. Sure, if you're hell-bent on being as competitive as possible, you'll most likely end up needing to go with 21.5/lipo. However, remember that not everyone is hell-bent on being as competitive as possible. In face, the entire class is more focused on fun, close racing than being the big winner.

Second, the real value in keeping the 27T/4-cell option is having a cheap, easy avenue to entry into the class. You can get into USVTA cheaper than pretty much any other class this way. Like has been said over and over, it's simple to come up with an older TC chassis and the 27T/4-cell combo. Most "serious" racers are discarding this stuff for pennies on the dollar. A new USVTA racer can snatch it up and get on the track quickly, easily, and inexpensively. Then, if they really catch the bug and want to step it up, they can pony up for the 21.5/lipo option.

Lastly, if there's no inexpensive avenue into USVTA in the official rules, clubs will make their own. This is a fact and you can see it happening. If 21.5/lipo is the only official option, local race directors will allow silver cans, 27T, or whatever their particular preference is to get people involved. Even worse, they may just run 17.5/lipo or something like several regions already do, further diluting the class. If there's going to be deviation from 21.5/lipo, wouldn't you prefer that it's still within the USVTA rules?

I find it ironic that there's this movement away from cheap, easy, fun simplicity in a class that was founded on that exact principle.
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Old 11-12-2008, 12:51 PM   #3188
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Well, I'm actually surprised and excited that the response both here, PM and through e-mail has been wholly in favor of S L O W E R race cars. It seems as though somehow the main thrust of this class has really sunk in, and people now GET IT! I'm thrilled.


Ok, so let's agree that nothing changes in the rules for this season.

The FDR stays as a flexible target for each track that uses the USVTA rules, with the 4.2 number as a starting point. Motors don't change at all, and next spring we'll ask any motor manufacturer to submit their ROAR approved 21.5 to the USVTA to test to make sure that they do not perform in excess of the existing motor formulas. Any motor found to perform superior to the standard-bearing Novak 21.5ss will not be approved for USVTA racing. We will solicit multiple racers from multiple tracks around the country to test all of these submitted motors under different conditions to acquire the data needed to approve them for USVTA racing.

I completely agree, nothing faster than what we are currently running should ever be legal.


We'll deal with other issues with the class growth as they develop.
I'm really glad to read this. This class is what got me back into racing and I'm introducing my 6 year old to it also. Had the changes talked about gone in, honestly I would have just dropped back out and stuck with bashing the Slash
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Old 11-12-2008, 01:21 PM   #3189
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Here is a link to the PRS website (http://www.precisionracingsystems.com/default2.aspx)

I'm racing with a TC3 with 21.5/lipo. If you purchase an 84 spur you should be able to easily fit any pinion you need to reach 4.2 without modifying the car. If you run a slower FDR, then you can buy an 88 and be fine.

The TC4 tub chassis is similar but I would recommend an 84 or 80 spur to get max FDR.
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Old 11-12-2008, 01:45 PM   #3190
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Here are a few things to add to the 4-cell/stock or 4-cell/17.5 options. Some chassis cannot easily fit a lipo battery. My old HPI Pro 3 stock chassis is one that won't easily fit a Lipo Orion "rectangular" pack. I believe that I might be able to get an Orion Lipo stick pack to fit. I also believe that the older Losi JRXS chassis can be a pain to get a lipo pack in.

In my case, I chose to run 4-cell/17.5 in my HPI Pro 3. I never felt that my car was slower on the straight. In fact, since I didn't have a limit on my FDR I was able to gear for a little more top speed for the straight. I like having this option. Personally I am using a non-Lipo GTB for this car. I'm sure someone can pick up a used non-lipo brushless speed control fairly cheap. Granted you may need to by a 17.5 motor (any brand), but that motor won't need the maintenance a 27-turn will need. In the end it may be a cheaper option for dad to have his kids using 4-cell/17.5 while he is running Lipo and saving to make the switch.
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Old 11-12-2008, 02:22 PM   #3191
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I am looking to get my son started in on road racing and this class seemed perfect, I have a dozen old 27T motors and speedo's that I can put in a chassis for him. If getting him started in on road required me to spend $200+ for a brushless setup I would just put him in stock rubber sedan.

Sorry to be frank but doing away with the brushed motor option is just a dumb idea....it is something that will kill the new person getting into the class, or the old guy with old parts starting racing again. He could run stock rubber with the old motor and speedo if he wanted to or have to shell out big bucks for brushless to run in VTA...what would the attraction be of VTA, slower cars, but with the same expensive brushless setups. Then you have the people that just like the brushed motors for other reasons then they are just $30. vs $80.

I know if the only option in VTA was brushless I would not give the class a second thought.

All that said I told the owner of the track I race at myself and my son would support a VTA type series and think that others that have not touched a car in 10 years would be intrested as well as new folk.

What would the reason be to do away with the brushed motors if they have been tested out to be as close to equal as possible why get rid of the only inexpensive option?
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Old 11-12-2008, 02:59 PM   #3192
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I was thinking about getting into this class,I have a tt-01 I was going to use because it on hand, started reading up on what else I would need to get started. it would be cheaper to get a rtr kit
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Old 11-12-2008, 03:23 PM   #3193
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A TT-01 will work fine for VTA. Not only do we have a racer running a TT-01 locally every week, but I've been beaten by one of our better drivers running a TT-01R. Not only did he beat my TC3, but he beat a few other drivers using TC5s. The only issue with a TT-01 is that you have to slightly modify it if you want to reach the max FDR of 4.2. If you search on the TT-01 thread here on RCTECH you will find how to slightly mod a F201 spur gear to get more gearing options for the car.
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Old 11-12-2008, 03:27 PM   #3194
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Thanks for the info
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Old 11-12-2008, 03:39 PM   #3195
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How do bodies get approved for VTA?
The new Bolink has both a 200mm 68 Camaro and 200mm 65 Mustang that would work for this class.
http://www.bolink.com/touringbodies.html (just ignore the Corvette)
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