R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Like Tree1Likes
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-11-2008, 04:19 PM   #3151
Tech Elite
 
squarehead's Avatar
R/C Tech Charter Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Wheaton, Illinois
Posts: 4,211
Trader Rating: 75 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to squarehead Send a message via MSN to squarehead Send a message via Yahoo to squarehead Send a message via Skype™ to squarehead
Thumbs up

Hey guys,

There isn't anything set in stone, because I'm happy with the ability to adjust on the fly with the USVTA, if needed. However, we won't be going to ONLY a 21.5/LiPo spec until at least the next winter indoor carpet season. It may happen next summer (after the Nats) to give a transition and preparation time for everyone to adapt, but we're nowhere close to that.


Now, concerning the 21.5 ROAR approvals. I have been told that the rules should be tentatively ready for the 2009 ROAR Rulebook and open to 21.5 approval submissions on January 1, 2009. At that time, there will be a lot of other Trans Am things becoming visible, as well.

It is the general consensus around here, and the track owners/managers that I have talked with, that the initial tests have shown that almost ALL of the 21.5s on the market currently (albeit non-regulated) are considerably faster than the current Novak 21.5ss that we are currently mandating. It is my personal opinion that at this point, allowing all other motors in the middle of the season might not be the best thing for the class as a whole. It would be completely unfair to instantly devalue EVERY Novak 21.5 motor running in the USVTA today, if all other non-Novak motors are as fast (or faster) as they appear to currently be.

As much as I would personally like the opportunity to run a Putnam or Tekin or Speed Passion 21.5, I think this would be a catastrophic move for the class for this indoor season (Winter 2008/2009).


So here's the rough and loose plan. This indoor season will hold the current rules until at least after the 2009 USVTA Nationals this coming April. No changes will be made to the motor/battery rulesówith the exception of maybe some minor FDR alterations at some point.

At some time in mid-to-late 2009, this class will probably move toward a 21.5/LiPo formula. Whether it stays a single spec motor or is open to any 21.5 remains to be seen. I need to assemble a group of racers at tracks around the country to independantly test a collection of available 21.5 motors so that we can generate reasonable data make the best decisions for the class.

Whatever happens, I can promise you one thing. The decisions made on the future of this great class will always be done with what is BEST for this class and it's loyal racers and supporters. It's not about companies, sponsors, free stuff or who races for whom. That crap is what got us to this point in the first place. There may be growing pains at some point, but in the end it will be a better class for it.



doug
__________________
Everything depends.
Nothing is always.
Everything is sometimes.
squarehead is offline  
Old 11-11-2008, 04:34 PM   #3152
Tech Champion
 
snoopyrc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Tunnel Hill GA
Posts: 5,046
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Thumbs up

__________________
www.battlefieldraceway.com Racing videos at http://www.youtube.com/snoopyrc
snoopyrc is offline  
Old 11-11-2008, 04:48 PM   #3153
Tech Master
 
TwoTone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,002
Trader Rating: 12 (100%+)
Default

Well since I haven't even gotten to the point of running my car,

I have a rare, very hard to find Novak 21.5 ss motor for sale, just pm me
TwoTone is offline  
Old 11-11-2008, 05:19 PM   #3154
Tech Elite
 
reenmachine's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Studio City, CA
Posts: 2,539
Trader Rating: 26 (100%+)
Default Check this out!

I build custom vintage Mustangs for a living, and one of my buddies from that world is Miles Cook, who is the Tech Editor for Mustang Monthly magazine. He used to race RC a lot back in the 80s and I've been letting him race my Mustang in VTA and I've been running my Camaro.

He also writes on the Mustang Monthly blog and he just posted this:

Mustang Monthly USVTA Blog

It'll be interesting to see what kind of response it gets!
__________________
Pete Waydo
2010 Big Fat Turkey Race Mini Cooper AAA Main Champion
*** currently in stasis ***
reenmachine is offline  
Old 11-11-2008, 06:11 PM   #3155
Tech Champion
 
robk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Macho Business Donkey Wrestler
Posts: 7,587
Trader Rating: 22 (100%+)
Default

https://www.ssl-stormerhobbies.com/c...=ns&pn=NOV3421
http://www.lefthander-rc.com/catalog...oducts_id=1302
http://www.windtunnelracingproducts....oducts_id=1096
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXTGD6&P=7
http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...ducts_id/18457

Motors available at the above
__________________
A mutually re-enforcing cascade of failure

"Failior [sic] crowns enterprise." Robert Goddard

I-Lap Scoring Systems http://www.rclapcounter.com/
robk is offline  
Old 11-11-2008, 06:33 PM   #3156
Tech Champion
 
snoopyrc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Tunnel Hill GA
Posts: 5,046
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Hey those look just like the ones were supposed to have. Seriously though, I didnt expect Tower to outperform all but Amain.
__________________
www.battlefieldraceway.com Racing videos at http://www.youtube.com/snoopyrc
snoopyrc is offline  
Old 11-11-2008, 06:42 PM   #3157
Tech Adept
 
Jim@RCP's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Madison WI
Posts: 221
Default

Sounds good, GP has them back in stock and Im sure Horizon will as well. That means all the LHS's should have them within a couple days...Hopefully the supply will keep up with the demand.
__________________
RCScoringPro.com
LiveRC.com
www.RCPerformance.com
www.MARCCA.com
REEDSBURG RACERS
Jim@RCP is offline  
Old 11-11-2008, 06:49 PM   #3158
Tech Master
 
pejota's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Vero Beach, FL
Posts: 1,022
Trader Rating: 12 (100%+)
Default

Call me crazy....

But why is everyone worried about which combo is faster or which 21.5 motor is faster?

I thought the point was to slow things down and have fun. Now everyone is worried about going faster....

Maybe people should take a deep breath and remember why they are racing USVTA instead of or in addition to Stock and Mod Touring Car.

Case in point, VTA seems to be dead in Florida because they wanted to run 17.5/lipo instead of the rules. Yes, i'm envious of you guys running VTA on a regular basis!
pejota is offline  
Old 11-11-2008, 07:16 PM   #3159
Tech Master
 
BadSign's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Franklin, IN
Posts: 1,158
Trader Rating: 15 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Three View Post
This is posted on the RJ Speed website (www.rjspeed.com):


I realize that Parma/PSE makes a 70 Mustang and Pegasus makes a 70 Mustang (looks like a 69). But they both look terrible (and yes I own one of each).
I'd agree that any body made by Parma is awful. The Pegasus has some bad points, such as the flat front airdam and the molded grill, but it's strong and pretty accurate looking in other respects.
__________________
This is the day the Lord has made, I will rejoice and be glad in it- Psalms 118:24

World Champion Turn Marshall
BadSign is offline  
Old 11-11-2008, 07:25 PM   #3160
Tech Champion
 
RCGaryK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Champaign, IL
Posts: 7,331
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Sounds good, GP has them back in stock and Im sure Horizon will as well. That means all the LHS's should have them within a couple days...Hopefully the supply will keep up with the demand.
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...ProdID=NOV3421

In Stock
__________________
Site Content Specialist- Surface
HorizonHobby.Com

Horizon Hobby is on YouTube with hundreds of different videos! Visit us at
http://www.youtube.com/HorizonRCdotCom
RCGaryK is offline  
Old 11-11-2008, 07:29 PM   #3161
Tech Elite
 
YmeBP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,927
Trader Rating: 32 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ApexSpeed View Post
Hey guys,

There isn't anything set in stone, because I'm happy with the ability to adjust on the fly with the USVTA, if needed. However, we won't be going to ONLY a 21.5/LiPo spec until at least the next winter indoor carpet season. It may happen next summer (after the Nats) to give a transition and preparation time for everyone to adapt, but we're nowhere close to that.


Now, concerning the 21.5 ROAR approvals. I have been told that the rules should be tentatively ready for the 2009 ROAR Rulebook and open to 21.5 approval submissions on January 1, 2009. At that time, there will be a lot of other Trans Am things becoming visible, as well.

It is the general consensus around here, and the track owners/managers that I have talked with, that the initial tests have shown that almost ALL of the 21.5s on the market currently (albeit non-regulated) are considerably faster than the current Novak 21.5ss that we are currently mandating. It is my personal opinion that at this point, allowing all other motors in the middle of the season might not be the best thing for the class as a whole. It would be completely unfair to instantly devalue EVERY Novak 21.5 motor running in the USVTA today, if all other non-Novak motors are as fast (or faster) as they appear to currently be.

As much as I would personally like the opportunity to run a Putnam or Tekin or Speed Passion 21.5, I think this would be a catastrophic move for the class for this indoor season (Winter 2008/2009).


So here's the rough and loose plan. This indoor season will hold the current rules until at least after the 2009 USVTA Nationals this coming April. No changes will be made to the motor/battery rulesówith the exception of maybe some minor FDR alterations at some point.

At some time in mid-to-late 2009, this class will probably move toward a 21.5/LiPo formula. Whether it stays a single spec motor or is open to any 21.5 remains to be seen. I need to assemble a group of racers at tracks around the country to independantly test a collection of available 21.5 motors so that we can generate reasonable data make the best decisions for the class.

Whatever happens, I can promise you one thing. The decisions made on the future of this great class will always be done with what is BEST for this class and it's loyal racers and supporters. It's not about companies, sponsors, free stuff or who races for whom. That crap is what got us to this point in the first place. There may be growing pains at some point, but in the end it will be a better class for it.



doug
As a racer and a dad of a current racer and 2 up and coming racers (lots and lots of rc stuff at my house) i'd like to ask, petition, beg that you don't make it 21.5 lipo only. Funny thing is i run 21.5 lipo .

1) My kid is 10, he's having a great time w/ the brushed, 4 cell. I can get both dirt cheap and other kids his skill level are running the same thing. Part of the reason he is racing vta is because the other classes are WAY too expensive, and fast. Hell even M18's have gotten crazy in the thirst for speed.

2) Cost, i'd like to keep racing. With all these blasted kids (yes i know we didn't have to have them all but we did and we like racing as a family) it's expensive to do lipo's. It is also expensive to go fast, the faster he (me too) goes the most stuff breaks.

3) Saftey, i'm not that worried about the lipo's blowing up when i use them, as lazy as i get sometimes i am careful w/ them. But ... he's 10, (my other new racer is almost 4) and i've yet to see him cause a meltdown w/ reversed polarity or shorted nickle's.

4) the whole idea of limited speed is what brought me to the class to begin with. I have to be honest i spent a good deal of money to be "competitive" in vta recently, now this whole thing w/ tire tread being a certain height is adding another expense. I started in vta w/ a used tc3 brushed and cells. After getting stomped by high dollar current tech touring cars and 21.5/lipo i upgraded/side graded my current touring car (a losi type-r) bougth a novak 21.5 and stuck a tekin rs in my vta, total bill 500$ total bill for a ready to run tc3 125$ with parts and batteries . You tell me ... which would you rather?

Keep the class slow, if people don't like it they can go back to touring or that new worl gt class that i see popping up. There are tons and tons of fast classes out there for people who want speed to choose from, keep vta close to it's roots.

Anyway just my 2 cents, really, cause that's all I have left after paying the cc bill from the start of the indoor season hahaha.
__________________
www.skyrocketracing.com quality RC gear!
http://www.rctech.net/forum/racing-forum/555071-2011-skyrocket-invitational-blue-diamond-raceway-october-15-16-a.html <- Great race!
YmeBP is offline  
Old 11-11-2008, 07:49 PM   #3162
Tech Master
 
Kregger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 1,110
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pejota View Post
Call me crazy....
I thought the point was to slow things down and have fun. Now everyone is worried about going faster....

Maybe people should take a deep breath and remember why they are racing USVTA instead of or in addition to Stock and Mod Touring Car.
I have to agree with this. I thought the whole point of the class was to have fun.

Apex, I aplaud you on your efforts with VTA and I like the fact that there is no commitee to dilute the rules. I am starting to get concered though that the speeds are getting up there especially with the 21.5 options. Is this somthing you are taking into consideration?
Kregger is offline  
Old 11-11-2008, 08:13 PM   #3163
Tech Master
 
f1larry's Avatar
R/C Tech Charter Subscriber
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Buffalo Grove, IL
Posts: 1,773
Trader Rating: 17 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to f1larry
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by YmeBP View Post
As a racer and a dad of a current racer and 2 up and coming racers (lots and lots of rc stuff at my house) i'd like to ask, petition, beg that you don't make it 21.5 lipo only. Funny thing is i run 21.5 lipo .

1) My kid is 10, he's having a great time w/ the brushed, 4 cell. I can get both dirt cheap and other kids his skill level are running the same thing. Part of the reason he is racing vta is because the other classes are WAY too expensive, and fast. Hell even M18's have gotten crazy in the thirst for speed.

2) Cost, i'd like to keep racing. With all these blasted kids (yes i know we didn't have to have them all but we did and we like racing as a family) it's expensive to do lipo's. It is also expensive to go fast, the faster he (me too) goes the most stuff breaks.

3) Saftey, i'm not that worried about the lipo's blowing up when i use them, as lazy as i get sometimes i am careful w/ them. But ... he's 10, (my other new racer is almost 4) and i've yet to see him cause a meltdown w/ reversed polarity or shorted nickle's.

4) the whole idea of limited speed is what brought me to the class to begin with. I have to be honest i spent a good deal of money to be "competitive" in vta recently, now this whole thing w/ tire tread being a certain height is adding another expense. I started in vta w/ a used tc3 brushed and cells. After getting stomped by high dollar current tech touring cars and 21.5/lipo i upgraded/side graded my current touring car (a losi type-r) bougth a novak 21.5 and stuck a tekin rs in my vta, total bill 500$ total bill for a ready to run tc3 125$ with parts and batteries . You tell me ... which would you rather?

Keep the class slow, if people don't like it they can go back to touring or that new worl gt class that i see popping up. There are tons and tons of fast classes out there for people who want speed to choose from, keep vta close to it's roots.

Anyway just my 2 cents, really, cause that's all I have left after paying the cc bill from the start of the indoor season hahaha.

I have to agree with YmeBP. I would hate to see the Brushed combo thrown out to soon. Being on a budget and having an 11 year old racing as well I am not able to convert everything at once. While I know Matthew and I will not be as competitive with our set ups as with the 21.5's we still are having fun.

I also think that having the brushed option will continue to draw in new people because they can continue to start racing at a low cost because they can buy equipment from people who have jumped to BL 21.5 lipo and a newer chasis. Once the Newbie gets hooked they will then upgrade as they will learn fast that BL 21.5/lipo is the cheapest/easiest combo in the long run and also will want a newer chasis now that they are hooked.
__________________
Windy City RC Raceway & Hobbies, Arlington Heights, IL
Exotek F1R3|X-Ray T4 16|CRC WC-Xti|TT02|TA05|TL01|
f1larry is offline  
Old 11-11-2008, 08:32 PM   #3164
Tech Master
 
TwoTone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,002
Trader Rating: 12 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ApexSpeed View Post
Hey guys,

It is the general consensus around here, and the track owners/managers that I have talked with, that the initial tests have shown that almost ALL of the 21.5s on the market currently (albeit non-regulated) are considerably faster than the current Novak 21.5ss that we are currently mandating. It is my personal opinion that at this point, allowing all other motors in the middle of the season might not be the best thing for the class as a whole. It would be completely unfair to instantly devalue EVERY Novak 21.5 motor running in the USVTA today, if all other non-Novak motors are as fast (or faster) as they appear to currently be.
doug
Quote:
Originally Posted by YmeBP View Post
As a racer and a dad of a current racer and 2 up and coming racers (lots and lots of rc stuff at my house) i'd like to ask, petition, beg that you don't make it 21.5 lipo only. Funny thing is i run 21.5 lipo .

1) My kid is 10, he's having a great time w/ the brushed, 4 cell. I can get both dirt cheap and other kids his skill level are running the same thing. Part of the reason he is racing vta is because the other classes are WAY too expensive, and fast. Hell even M18's have gotten crazy in the thirst for speed.

2) Cost, i'd like to keep racing. With all these blasted kids (yes i know we didn't have to have them all but we did and we like racing as a family) it's expensive to do lipo's. It is also expensive to go fast, the faster he (me too) goes the most stuff breaks.

3) Saftey, i'm not that worried about the lipo's blowing up when i use them, as lazy as i get sometimes i am careful w/ them. But ... he's 10, (my other new racer is almost 4) and i've yet to see him cause a meltdown w/ reversed polarity or shorted nickle's.

4) the whole idea of limited speed is what brought me to the class to begin with. I have to be honest i spent a good deal of money to be "competitive" in vta recently, now this whole thing w/ tire tread being a certain height is adding another expense. I started in vta w/ a used tc3 brushed and cells. After getting stomped by high dollar current tech touring cars and 21.5/lipo i upgraded/side graded my current touring car (a losi type-r) bougth a novak 21.5 and stuck a tekin rs in my vta, total bill 500$ total bill for a ready to run tc3 125$ with parts and batteries . You tell me ... which would you rather?

Keep the class slow, if people don't like it they can go back to touring or that new worl gt class that i see popping up. There are tons and tons of fast classes out there for people who want speed to choose from, keep vta close to it's roots.

Anyway just my 2 cents, really, cause that's all I have left after paying the cc bill from the start of the indoor season hahaha.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kregger View Post
I have to agree with this. I thought the whole point of the class was to have fun.

Apex, I aplaud you on your efforts with VTA and I like the fact that there is no commitee to dilute the rules. I am starting to get concered though that the speeds are getting up there especially with the 21.5 options. Is this somthing you are taking into consideration?
Quote:
Originally Posted by f1larry View Post
I have to agree with YmeBP. I would hate to see the Brushed combo thrown out to soon. Being on a budget and having an 11 year old racing as well I am not able to convert everything at once. While I know Matthew and I will not be as competitive with our set ups as with the 21.5's we still are having fun.

I also think that having the brushed option will continue to draw in new people because they can continue to start racing at a low cost because they can buy equipment from people who have jumped to BL 21.5 lipo and a newer chasis. Once the Newbie gets hooked they will then upgrade as they will learn fast that BL 21.5/lipo is the cheapest/easiest combo in the long run and also will want a newer chasis now that they are hooked.
The move to ROAR 21.5 has me concerned because I'm in the same boat trying to do this with my son. While I knew there might such a move, I didn't think it meant replacing the NOVAK 21.5. If these ROAR 21.5 are going to be that much faster, I have to believe going to them will kill this class faster than most want to admit.

This class was about fun, cost and slower speeds. Novak has seen the demand and made ajustments, leave it the NOVAK motor. Look at all the
complaints currently saying that the other 2 motor options can't keep up.
If you move to faster 21.5s, you'll just lose a lot of the people your were originally trying to attract with the class.
TwoTone is offline  
Old 11-11-2008, 08:51 PM   #3165
Tech Champion
 
snoopyrc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Tunnel Hill GA
Posts: 5,046
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

At really large races. Like the Birds. Maybe it would be possible to split the class, and separate them into like power combinations.

Locally I am for keeping all rules the same.
__________________
www.battlefieldraceway.com Racing videos at http://www.youtube.com/snoopyrc
snoopyrc is offline  
Closed Thread

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Georgia Vintage Trans Am Racing shadow102 Georgia Racing 725 02-24-2012 09:56 AM
Vintage Trans Am Scottrik Electric On-Road 47 02-24-2012 08:21 AM
Vintage Trans-Am TC hlpressley R/C Items: Wanted to Buy 5 10-23-2008 04:00 PM
Thursday Vintage Trans Am racing at Victory in Green Bay Brian F Wisconsin & Illinois Racing 13 05-10-2008 08:37 AM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 04:19 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net