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Old 11-10-2008, 05:02 PM   #3106
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Originally Posted by Kevin K View Post
For all the guys that want to keep only the Novak 21.5 motor why don't you guys want everyone to be on 1 type of ESC??? There is way more advantage in the ESC that you use then there is in what motor you run. If you really wanted to keep it level then you would be clamoring for a limit to what ESC you can use.
Kev,

A spec speedo may be a good idea. Watch what you propose....lol

I will support Dougs decission what ever it is because I started the Vintage Trans-Am class in the Midwest and I am glad Doug took that idea and improved it and ran with it. Vintage T/A is in my blood.

Last edited by 414MPH; 11-10-2008 at 06:29 PM. Reason: A blow to the head brought me to my senses.... For the greater good.....
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Old 11-10-2008, 05:47 PM   #3107
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From a business standpoint the only one motor allowed rule is not nessarily a good choice. As it stands the Novak 21.5s are not always avalible. Somtimes for weeks (which can account for a good portion of the indoor season).

From a national business stance, it hurts the industry in general by cornering the market for one, and curtailing it for all others.

I have customers that really want to join the fun in the Trans Am class but do not want anything to do with NIMHs and brushed motors, or have seen the benefits of the 21.5/lipo, but the only allowed brushless is on backorder. In the 13.5 class I see GTBs againts LRPs vs SP vs Trinity without issue, why is such a popular class as TA so resticted to the point that a backorder can push potential racers into other things ?

I realize alot of thought has gone into all of the rules and I will not argue them, im just offering what I have been seeing over the past few weeks.
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Old 11-10-2008, 06:34 PM   #3108
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A blow to the head brought me to my senses.... For the greater good.....
Funny how that works.
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Old 11-10-2008, 07:01 PM   #3109
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Originally Posted by 414MPH View Post
Kev,

A spec speedo may be a good idea. Watch what you propose....lol

I will support Dougs decission what ever it is because I started the Vintage Trans-Am class in the Midwest and I am glad Doug took that idea and improved it and ran with it. Vintage T/A is in my blood.
Then why not have a spec 27T motor? Spec 17.5? The Spec 21.5 is inconsistent with the rest of the motor rules packages. As others have said it hasn't been exactly easy to get a Novak 21.5 (but will admit that Novak is producing them as quickly as possible). There are other options starting to crop up. It would be nice to at least see some options.

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Originally Posted by Dawn Sanchez View Post
Correct .. as long as no particular brands are advertised in the class... ie: Tamiya Mini Champs,etc....... and of course on ROAR Executive committee aprpoval. All such requests MUST go directly to Ruben Benitez, Competition Director and he is the only contact the track (nationals host) has in regards to the race program.
See, I am not completely wrong all the time!
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Old 11-10-2008, 07:06 PM   #3110
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Originally Posted by RCGaryK View Post
Then why not have a spec 27T motor? Spec 17.5? The Spec 21.5 is inconsistent with the rest of the motor rules packages. As others have said it hasn't been exactly easy to get a Novak 21.5 (but will admit that Novak is producing them as quickly as possible). There are other options starting to crop up. It would be nice to at least see some options.



See, I am not completely wrong all the time!
There is a spec 17.5, any ROAR legal motor. Once there are ROAR approved 21.5, it will be the same.
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Old 11-10-2008, 07:09 PM   #3111
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Then why not have a spec 27T motor? Spec 17.5? The Spec 21.5 is inconsistent with the rest of the motor rules packages. As others have said it hasn't been exactly easy to get a Novak 21.5 (but will admit that Novak is producing them as quickly as possible). There are other options starting to crop up. It would be nice to at least see some options.
Seriously? Name me one other class in R/C racing with three different motor options and two completely different battery options.

See... can't do it.
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Old 11-10-2008, 07:10 PM   #3112
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the guy set the rules, deal with it. there are plenty of 21.5s to go around out there if u look. might have to pay 5bux more or support your LHS but if you want the best package, well then pony up (no pun)

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Old 11-10-2008, 07:12 PM   #3113
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There is a spec 17.5, any ROAR legal motor. Once there are ROAR approved 21.5, it will be the same.
Where do you find a call for a spec Novak 17.5? This is from the rules page:

Option 2: 17.5 brushless: Motor timing advance is allowed. 12.5 mm rotor diameter maximum (no "tuning" rotors are allowed).

Compare to

Option 3: 21.5 brushless with 2C LiPo: Novak SS21.5 Pro brushless motor (pn:3421) ONLY combined with any ROAR-approved hard-cased 2C 7.4v LiPo pack up to and including 5000 mAh capacity. Novak motor is the ONLY motor allowed at this time, because there are no ROAR mandates or restrictions for the 21.5 brushless motors. All house track rules regarding LiPo usage apply. Final drive ratio is to not exceed 4.2. Motor timing advance is allowed. 12.5 mm rotor diameter maximum (no "tuning" rotors are allowed).

Sorry, the way that reads is Open 17.5. If I am missing something somewhere elsewhere in the rules on the site that I am missing.
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Old 11-10-2008, 07:16 PM   #3114
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spend more time practicing, less time posting. it helps seriously

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Old 11-10-2008, 07:21 PM   #3115
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Originally Posted by ultegrasti View Post
spend more time practicing, less time posting. it helps seriously

R
Can't practice without a motor for one...

Can't ask a question? Can't seek clarification? Sounds like an autocracy to me.

BTW, with all due respect to Dawn and ROAR, this class was created because of something not being provided by ROAR, an issue not being addressed. The creation of this class was completely proactive. Why be reactive now?
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Old 11-10-2008, 07:27 PM   #3116
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The 21.5 came from oval racing which is highly nurtured by Novak. Thats why the oval racers use them so much still. It is by many means the standard for 21.5 motors.

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Where do you find a call for a spec Novak 17.5? This is from the rules page:

Sorry, the way that reads is Open 17.5. If I am missing something somewhere elsewhere in the rules on the site that I am missing.
The thing here is that ROAR has a list of approved 17.5 motors, all of which are allowed in USVTA. There is no such approved list for the 21.5 so we are going with the motor approved by the association that uses the most 21.5 motors. That would be (I think) the BRL, and the motor is the Novak.
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Old 11-10-2008, 07:32 PM   #3117
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Originally Posted by snoopyrc View Post
As far as making everything else spec. What is it youre complaining about again? I think I got lost. If Doug were to go that far then I would suggest eliminating all options except for the 21.5 lipo. And doing that would cost me money as right now Im running 27/4. (It wont get out of its own way, but Im not cutting comms and zapping magnets every weekend either.)
Plus you might as well kiss goodbye all the acceptance of this class...

I wouldn't want this class to be spec'ed to one motor, one esc and one battery - that would flat out suck!
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Old 11-10-2008, 07:37 PM   #3118
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Originally Posted by snoopyrc View Post
The thing here is that ROAR has a list of approved 17.5 motors, all of which are allowed in USVTA. There is no such approved list for the 21.5 so we are going with the motor approved by the association that uses the most 21.5 motors. That would be (I think) the BRL, and the motor is the Novak.
You just made part of my point as there are multiple options out there legal in the 17.5 and 27T classes. If the specs jive with the other motors, and one would have to assume that the other manufacturers are using the Novak motor as the benchmark, then why not? Competition is good for the sport. In many ways there are bigger gains to be found in different ESC's than you'd ever see from one motor to another. Novak motors have always had awesome performance and great reliability. The issue at hand is simply availability
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Old 11-10-2008, 07:45 PM   #3119
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You have a point. And I have wondered that myself at one point, but I an confident that the reason the 21.5 option is not open is that Doug is waiting on ROAR to approve a list. I know that he has considered opening up some of the more popular 21.5s on the market, but he is trying to avoid a can of worms.

In time that list will come out and this issue will go bye bye.
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Old 11-10-2008, 07:46 PM   #3120
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Ok Gary, here's the deal.

Without ANY sort of mandate or structure for how 21.5 brushless motors should be constructed, it's a wild west situation. Sure, they claim to be "ROAR Approved" but that means little to anyone when there IS NO ROAR APPROVAL for 21.5 brushless motors. What is to prevent company T from building an outlaw 21.5 and marking it as an "approved" motor? Nothing at all, and while it's not likely that any company would waste the effort on a motor that isn't used for anything but certain circles of oval racing, and your odd spec classes here and there, it's certainly possible.

With ONE motor for the spec option of our rules, we eliminated ALL potential for oddball 21.5 motors that we had no opportunity to test with before the 21.5 rule was implemented. Considering how much effort and work that Novak put into this motor with the BRL, and how long it has been on the market, it was an easy choice for the USVTA.

I have been in contact with Charlie at Novak, and he assures me that the availability issues with the 21.5 have been fixed and the motors should be back in circulation immediately, if not already. He did admit that Novak was caught a little off guard by the increased demand for the motor after it pretty much sat ignored for its previous life. I'm confident that Novak is now fully prepared for the demand of this motor, with the BRL and USVTA relying so heavily on this motor for it's base.

And for the record, about 60 seconds on Google last week in the middle of the "Great Novak Drought" found me 4 different places that had Novak 21.5s in stock. If you can't find a motor, it's an issue. If you can't find a deal, it's most definitely not something that we're going to change the rules for.
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