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Old 11-10-2008, 12:21 PM   #3091
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Originally Posted by SWTour View Post
where are you running VTA? (You are in CA aren't you?)

I'm looking for places that are running it out here....(ideas for the future)

I know we're doing it up the Coast in NIPOMO and the VENTURA Road Runners is running kind of an outlaw version with the Mabuchi type motors...
I've kind of been the one behind what we're calling "Vintage Spec" with the Ventura County Roadrunners club. Yes, we have started out running 540J/6-cell to gauge interest and get going on the cheap, but turnout has been good (about 15 cars built so far) and I'll be working to steer it towards full USVTA rules in the coming year. At our club race in 2 weeks I'll be running 21.5/lipo against our field of silver can cars to see how it stacks up. I'll also run one heat with the silver can so I can compare apples to apples.

I would be way into helping organize some sort of inaugural west coast USVTA event in the spring or next summer. I'm sure I could get the full support of the club and we may have an expanded, newly-resurfaced track by then that would make a great venue.

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Old 11-10-2008, 12:25 PM   #3092
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Airplane guys could better explain it but as long as one of the 3 options has a higher voltage power source (regardless of the motor size) it will always have an advantage. When you increase voltage and decrease the motor's draw all components are less taxed to arrive at a given power output (watts). The higher voltage setup will run cooler and fade far less over the longer mains. Odds are that this UAVTA class will become a 21.5 B/L spec class, 4 cell voltage will always have disadvantages.
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Old 11-10-2008, 01:11 PM   #3093
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Minnesota.

Curently we do not allow the 21.5/lipo combo until we can find a spec that will not require all current rracers to buy new equipment to compete.

5 celll 17.5 is the wrong direction on speed.

Something we looked at the idea of when going to this 21.5 / LIPO on the oval was - to go with a BONDED rotor. But personally I didn't want a DUMBED down version of the motor...and also thought it would create other issues. (Those rotors fail much quicker) and Charlie from NOVAK agreed.

A bonded rotor WOULD slow the 21.5's down, and make them a few bucks cheaper...
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Old 11-10-2008, 02:07 PM   #3094
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For all the guys that want to keep only the Novak 21.5 motor why don't you guys want everyone to be on 1 type of ESC??? There is way more advantage in the ESC that you use then there is in what motor you run. If you really wanted to keep it level then you would be clamoring for a limit to what ESC you can use. The speed of these brushless motors comes more from what ESC you use then what motor you use. If you have an ESC that can change the timing of the motor then right there you are at an advantage of a guy who doesn't have one of these ESC's. So I don't get the uproar about the motors when they are the least of any real concern as to keeping the playing field level. I think that once ROAR makes a 21.5 list that the motors on this list should be allowed….just based on the fact that getting these Novak Motors is a complete pain in the ass at times and not to mention they are very inconsistent as to which ones are fast and which ones are slow.
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Old 11-10-2008, 02:11 PM   #3095
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Has anyone noticed that the new trinity 21.5 says "ROAR SPEC" on the can??
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Old 11-10-2008, 02:19 PM   #3096
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Has anyone noticed that the new trinity 21.5 says "ROAR SPEC" on the can??
that's nice - but ROAR don't have any 21.5-spec'ed motors...

The Tekin says the same - but neither is ROAR approved..
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Old 11-10-2008, 02:20 PM   #3097
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For all the guys that want to keep only the Novak 21.5 motor why don't you guys want everyone to be on 1 type of ESC??? There is way more advantage in the ESC that you use then there is in what motor you run. If you really wanted to keep it level then you would be clamoring for a limit to what ESC you can use. The speed of these brushless motors comes more from what ESC you use then what motor you use. If you have an ESC that can change the timing of the motor then right there you are at an advantage of a guy who doesn't have one of these ESC's. So I don't get the uproar about the motors when they are the least of any real concern as to keeping the playing field level. I think that once ROAR makes a 21.5 list that the motors on this list should be allowed….
That makes sense.

Having the class be totally 100% spec sounds nice at first, but in the real world would alienate a lot of people.

The less-fun class I race is 13.5 sedan. Everyone runs a different ESC/motor, and everyone thinks they have the "magic" combo (including me with my Tekin RS/SP13.5 lol). There's pretty much a different winner every race -- in fact, the whole finishing order is pretty jumbled. Yes, there are differences is motors and ESCs, but in the end chassis setup and driving make all the difference.
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Old 11-10-2008, 02:22 PM   #3098
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This sparked a thought... What if ROAR tried to add VTA as a national class? Good? Bad? I am 99.999999% sure it would never happen, but it does pose an interesting question. I think that one of the reasons it is such a popular class is because it is a class for racers, by racers. If ROAR was to take it over, I think it would loose that feel and eventually fade out. Thoughts?
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Not a chance of that happening. Grassroots will always be grassroots, but you never know about what happens at a higher level.
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Hope you didn't go to Vegas with that percentage.......

Ok while I think K spec has a good question, I think the wording is just a bit off. The problem I see here is the phrase,"If ROAR was to take it over". Most people are familiar with the rules that are common to ROAR and those of the USVTA. Everyone that I know of running VTA at least references the USVTA for guidelines. Most follow USVTA rules to the letter. While ROAR is not directly involved in the rules for USVTA, they still form the rules by which most clubs operate, whether or not they are ROAR tracks.

That being said I dont see why ROAR sanctioned USVTA races couldnt be possible on both a local and national level. It wouldnt mean that ROAR was "taking over" the class. Either way VTA racing is doing just fine. See you guys at the birds.
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Old 11-10-2008, 02:26 PM   #3099
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that's nice - but ROAR don't have any 21.5-spec'ed motors...

The Tekin says the same - but neither is ROAR approved..
Pure speculation but they could be using the same tooling for the can even if the wind is differrent. I mean Trinity and Tekin and for that matter Hacker, all have 13.5 and 17.5s that are ROAR spec. So if the basic construction is the same and the wind is all thats differrent, then it wouldnt be a stretch to stamp ROAR spec without really thinking about it that much.
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Old 11-10-2008, 02:41 PM   #3100
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Roar always has the option of adding 1 class to any nationals if there's a "Local Class". I remember at Trackside when they hosted the carpet oval nats they had the "Trackside Cup" class. At the recent Nats at the Plex they had 13.5 Rubber. A host track can add 1 class at their digression if agreed upon with ROAR, correct Dawn?
Correct .. as long as no particular brands are advertised in the class... ie: Tamiya Mini Champs,etc....... and of course on ROAR Executive committee aprpoval. All such requests MUST go directly to Ruben Benitez, Competition Director and he is the only contact the track (nationals host) has in regards to the race program.
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Old 11-10-2008, 02:42 PM   #3101
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Has anyone noticed that the new trinity 21.5 says "ROAR SPEC" on the can??
By the statement I made above was not to fuel the 21.5 debate as I am sure Apex has to be getting tired of ,It was just a question regaurding how are they allowed to do this w/out approval or do they know something we dont? I am sure Apex will let us all know when it is legal to run the other 21.5's as I am sure he would want to test in some fashion......Sorry for quoting myself
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Old 11-10-2008, 02:42 PM   #3102
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Pure speculation but they could be using the same tooling for the can even if the wind is differrent. I mean Trinity and Tekin and for that matter Hacker, all have 13.5 and 17.5s that are ROAR spec. So if the basic construction is the same and the wind is all thats differrent, then it wouldnt be a stretch to stamp ROAR spec without really thinking about it that much.
That's probably exactly the case.
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Old 11-10-2008, 04:36 PM   #3103
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Do you have any indication that ROAR is even considering doing anything with a 21.5 motor? Why would they? 17.5 is the "Stock" motor. There currently is no ROAR-sanctioned class that would utilize this motor.
Gary, yes ROAR is working on 21.5 rules. This was sparked by oval racers wanting a 21.5 lipo class.

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Old 11-10-2008, 04:38 PM   #3104
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This sparked a thought... What if ROAR tried to add VTA as a national class? Good? Bad? I am 99.999999% sure it would never happen, but it does pose an interesting question.
Are you a betting man?
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Old 11-10-2008, 04:43 PM   #3105
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