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Old 10-27-2008, 08:15 PM   #2926
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Im ok, still at work tonight...

I got excited for a second, I sure miss the old days at comp, had alot of fun.

Hit me up on pm if you wanna chat more so we dont hijack the thread too much lol
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Old 10-27-2008, 09:45 PM   #2927
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First off i want to say that running vta was probably the most fun i have ever had racing, i was cracking up the hole time on the driver stand. I never ran the class on carpet before last week, and i learned a few things that may be helpful. First is obvious but should be said just incase, the cornerspeed of the car is very important with the slower motors, laps where cars got a good smooth line onto the straight would always pull a choppy entry regardless of the motor combo....just ask Mike Collins about pushing me a few times...haha. Also, it seems that most cars are just way too highly geared, i ran a lipo/21.5 combo and 4.2 just seemed like a bit much. I had better lap times with gearing in the 4.4 to 4.3 range. (I do have a Speedpassion esc with the timing on high so that does effect the gearing sweet spot) The main thing was just really to have a mellow predictable car...fortunately you can take a rubber car and just throw on the tires and body, it will work real well.
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Old 10-27-2008, 10:02 PM   #2928
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Doug,

I would be all for changing the FDR on 21.5/ lipo to slow the cars down 'IF' that was the only power combination. As the posted result indicate above, a well tuned and maintained Brushed motor with fresh top shelf cells is right on the 21.2/Lipo heals as well as fresh cells and 17.5. Pinalizing the 21.5 so top maintained motors and/or cells can win kinda defeats the low maint. aspect and the have fun aspect.

I belive that Ideally one manufacturers 21.5 B/L should be the spec motor and Lipo as all lipo have the same voltage, run after run. This combination removes the "he has better cells and motors than me" whinning and forces the driver to tune the chassis and work on his driving. I switched to 21.5/Lipo and have been having more fun now then I have had in years with time to enjoy the day/evening and visit and not having to tune and tweek the power stuff, just the chassis.

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Old 10-27-2008, 11:54 PM   #2929
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^^^^ Pretty much what I posted about a 1 motor / 1 battery spec option. Eliminates a ton of headaches, questions , and speculations. I think it would be great
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Old 10-28-2008, 02:11 AM   #2930
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 414MPH View Post
Doug,

I would be all for changing the FDR on 21.5/ lipo to slow the cars down 'IF' that was the only power combination. As the posted result indicate above, a well tuned and maintained Brushed motor with fresh top shelf cells is right on the 21.2/Lipo heals as well as fresh cells and 17.5. Pinalizing the 21.5 so top maintained motors and/or cells can win kinda defeats the low maint. aspect and the have fun aspect.

I belive that Ideally one manufacturers 21.5 B/L should be the spec motor and Lipo as all lipo have the same voltage, run after run. This combination removes the "he has better cells and motors than me" whinning and forces the driver to tune the chassis and work on his driving. I switched to 21.5/Lipo and have been having more fun now then I have had in years with time to enjoy the day/evening and visit and not having to tune and tweek the power stuff, just the chassis.

Marty
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^^^^ Pretty much what I posted about a 1 motor / 1 battery spec option. Eliminates a ton of headaches, questions , and speculations. I think it would be great
The "1 motor, 1 battery" option WOULD work IF you were dealing with a bunch of converts from "normal" touring - and even brand new drivers to a certain point...

But if you are trying to draw in new racers, or bring old racers back to the track - its hard to explain why you need to only run 1 motor and 1 kind of battery...Or worse yet, you run into a situation (like earlier this summer), where that 1 particular motor isn't available - and then you are forcing these guys to have to wait, or spend weeks shopping around for a "legal" motor instead of letting them strap in whatever 27t/17.5 they had laying around and race...

I like the 3 motor option - but i also agree that the FDR of the 21.5/Lipo needs to be changed...In all honestly, well maybe just where I'm racing, we don't have guys running the "latest-and-greatest" in NIMH batteries, they are the weaker, older cells from last year...Plus, as more battery matchers stop selling NIMH, it will be harder to get them - and that will "force" a change over...

Either way, this class is great because it allows the drivers a flexibility of a power option and that allows more people more access to the class...If, after a season of running 1 power option, the driver chooses to change over - then the class allows for that...

Its a great "hook" to bring people back into racing: "yo man, dig out that old TC3, throw some 4cell packs (that you use for 12th scale) and a stock motor, get a body and tires and come race with us again" - how many classes ANYWHERE in RC can say something like that?? I know where I run, we've "conned" err I mean convinced 5 or 6 guys to come back out and race because of the way this class is...

Do I see the 21.5/lipo as the only option in the future? yes, I do - but I don't see the need to force it at this point as the ONLY option...

Tweak the rules and bring things back in line and then see what happens...
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Old 10-28-2008, 04:11 AM   #2931
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Yeah, I agree with you on those points K-bo, but shortage of motors were not that much of a problem back in the day when we were running spec motors/batts that actually needed consistent cleanings, brush changes, and inventory stock up per racer. I'm thinking with today's brushless/lipo technology ( longer lasting motor and batteries, virtually no maintenance) supply shortage wouldn't be much of a problem due to the fact that you don't have to buy 2,3,or 4, motors to stock up on. 2 lipos and you're good.
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Old 10-28-2008, 05:24 AM   #2932
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Originally Posted by DJ919 View Post
Yeah, I agree with you on those points K-bo, but shortage of motors were not that much of a problem back in the day when we were running spec motors/batts that actually needed consistent cleanings, brush changes, and inventory stock up per racer. I'm thinking with today's brushless/lipo technology ( longer lasting motor and batteries, virtually no maintenance) supply shortage wouldn't be much of a problem due to the fact that you don't have to buy 2,3,or 4, motors to stock up on. 2 lipos and you're good.
true - but earlier this summer is was just about impossible to find the Novak 21.5 motors, they were pretty much backordered all over

which is something that could potientially happen again (not badmouthing Novak), but a sudden need for these motors could out sell their production runs...
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Old 10-28-2008, 06:14 AM   #2933
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"t/a
21.5 lipo tq & win
Mike Haynes #1 37 8:02.386 12.657

4 cell 17.5 finished 2nd
Mike Collins #2 37 8:12.338 13.043

finished 3rd 21.5 lipo
Chris Goetz #6 36 8:01.787 12.822"

ok I do not see how this is close. The comment that the 2nd driver was very close at the end is accurate but if you look at the fast lap you have a .4 spread.. that is huge. The drivers ability to put the laps back to back is what will get you the win so you have some driver error on the winner.. 37 laps at .4 faster = 14.8 seconds providing both drivers are driving at top form.

you also have a .2 spread from second to 3rd were thid had the advantage but did not capitlize on it. a 7.4 second advantage that was given up on the corner dots or inconsistent driving.

when the power plants are equal and the driving skills are all similar you will see .01 .04 in fastest lap diffs. Much more like this

Driver's Name Total Laps Total Time Fastest Lap On Lap Avg. Lap Time Status
1 1 Aaron Bahner 51 00:08:05.612 00:08.793 39 09.521 Done!
2 3 Jeff Brustad 49 00:08:00.569 00:08.835 28 09.807 Done!
3 5 Sandy Schwartz 49 00:08:06.795 00:08.791 49 09.934 Done!
4 4 Joe Zair Jr 47 00:08:00.959 00:08.824 20 10.233 Done!
5 2 Joe Zaier 47 00:08:06.603 00:08.843 31 10.353 Do

fastest laps 8.793 8.835 8.791 8.824 8.843

The end result winner put two laps on the field by being consistent but not by being faster.
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Old 10-28-2008, 08:09 AM   #2934
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Sorry if this has been answered before. Im looking into this class. Someone told me the Novak 21.5 was the only legal motor in the 21.5/lipo configuration. Is this true? If so, any plans to change that? Not a big fan of the Novak sensor wires.
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Old 10-28-2008, 08:12 AM   #2935
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Collins ran 4 cell / 27t stocker............
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Old 10-28-2008, 08:13 AM   #2936
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robk View Post
Mike Haynes was super fast at the Gate, but his car was totally on point, along with his proven driving skills. There were several cars that were just as fast down the straight. I didn't realize Mike Collins had a 17.5, since his car was just as fast as the rest.

I hope Seaball will come on this thread, as he did not run 21.5 until Sunday (borrowed a motor). I think he could shed some light here.

PS about sweet sweet V8 rumble: the motor sound apparently does NOT work correctly with brushless. After the race, I temp'd my motor at 150*F. Way too hot. The instructions say it doesn't work with brushless but I hooked it up anyway, and it worked. I do have the feeling the 2 wires you have to run off the motor may have been creating some sort of short in the system
I wasnt at the race so I dont know for sure. But I know going into the race Mike Collins said he was going to run a 27T. He didn't think he could gear a 17.5 on the TC3. Mike is a great driver thats been at it for 20+ years. It did seem to me looking at the results that whatever combo the first place driver was running must have been a lot faster.

What is the best handling body for this class?
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Old 10-28-2008, 08:22 AM   #2937
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What is the best handling body for this class?
I would say the HPI '68 Camero SS
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Old 10-28-2008, 08:56 AM   #2938
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I just read a post in our track's local online forum that I thought other race directors, track owners and all TA racers would be interested in. It's a testimonial about TA racing and costs involved with TA racing:

" I have been involved in this crazy hobby for 28 years and this summer was the most fun that I have had in many, many years....... a really strong point (about) cost controlled racing, trans-am and gt3 in my opinion are classes that really allow someone to focus on driving and not buying damn tires week after week. I am well aware that no class is perfect and there are loop holes in anything with rules, but overall I am a huge fan of spec racing......I am one of those crazy people that keeps track of where all my money goes: to put it in perspective, I have spent less money on ALL of my trans-am gear including my 007 chassis than I usually do on tires alone for one season of 1/8 scale off road racing! ......... Good racing to all."
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Old 10-28-2008, 09:03 AM   #2939
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What is the best handling body for this class?
There isn't one. The cars do 24-26MPH so it doesn't make a difference.
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Old 10-28-2008, 09:34 AM   #2940
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Is it just me or is it rare to see someone go from 1/8gas to VTA. It might just be a thing in GA.
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