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Old 08-15-2008, 11:37 AM   #2086
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Originally Posted by chicagokenji View Post
7.4 LiPo can be used. With a 21.5 Novak motor, using 4.2 FDR. It's these:

stock motor/4cell NiMh/NiCad
17.5 Brushless/4 cell Nimh/NiCad
21.5 Novak Brushless/ 7.4 LiPo
yeah i know that but is there a reason you couldnt use a lipo with say a 27t brushed if you had a fdr limit? or a 6 cell for someone just starting in the hobby to be able to buy a stick pack and race.
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Old 08-15-2008, 12:09 PM   #2087
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Someone more experienced will have to answer your 27T gearing question.

But, what I've done at our track is I made a bunch of 4 cell packs that I just give away to the new racers. I personally had bunches of older 3300's and better racers at our track give me their retired 6 cell packs and I just make 4 cell packs out of them to hand out.

If you had 3 die hard racers in your program I'd bet you could come up with enough free cells to make hand out 4 cell packs for the newbies
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Old 08-15-2008, 12:26 PM   #2088
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Originally Posted by chicagokenji View Post
Someone more experienced will have to answer your 27T gearing question.

But, what I've done at our track is I made a bunch of 4 cell packs that I just give away to the new racers. I personally had bunches of older 3300's and better racers at our track give me their retired 6 cell packs and I just make 4 cell packs out of them to hand out.

If you had 3 die hard racers in your program I'd bet you could come up with enough free cells to make hand out 4 cell packs for the newbies
That is excellent. Thats problem solving right there. I dont mean to overblow my reaction but, you know you saw a need and you found a solution. Nice work!
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Old 08-15-2008, 12:27 PM   #2089
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yeah i know that but is there a reason you couldnt use a lipo with say a 27t brushed if you had a fdr limit? or a 6 cell for someone just starting in the hobby to be able to buy a stick pack and race.
the actual problem with 21.5 and 6cell is the gearing actually helps on a tight track giving the driver way more pull out of the corners then someone running a 4cell 17.5/27t even with the FRD set to 4.2 the only way to work that out is to actually have the 21.5 slower down the straight so that he has to make it up in the infield. so on a small track it's 21.5lipo advantage. on a wide outdoor track it's a close race as the torque that the 21.5 has is lost on to the fact that the driver of the 17.5/27t can stay on throttle and stay at equal with the 21.5.

we had the same proplem with a driver using a 13.5 geared down. (remember we run 6cell/lipo-17.5/27t) when he finally got his own car and a 27t motor he realizied that the 13.5 was getting him in trouble faster and that he had to learn to drive as the nitro guys say "on the pipe" where with the 13.5 he could let off a little and mash it back to speed with the 27t he had to stay on the power and roll the corners more. similar to the guy that geared down a 10.5 to run with the 13.5 and then got the 13.5 and realized the same issue. torque kills top speed anyday on a tight track.
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Old 08-15-2008, 01:16 PM   #2090
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Our track specifies 4cell / 19t brushed or BL equivelent. Right now I'm the only one using brushed, CP Money-motor, geared same as 6cell, 2 teeth taller than Cobalt stock. My car is so much faster than everyone else that I get teched before and after every run. To make weight I use 2 cells not connected for a total of 1497 to 1507, 1450 being our spec'ed minimium. I was really surprised how fast the car is on the 4cell.
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Old 08-15-2008, 02:55 PM   #2091
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The 21.5 has more pop out of the corner for sure. On asphalt, this really has not been an advantage at all, especially on the 110' straight at kenji's track. the straight almost always goes into a sweeper the width of the track, so that's even more room for the cars to leg it out.

It will be interesting to see what happens inside
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Old 08-15-2008, 03:53 PM   #2092
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagokenji View Post
Someone more experienced will have to answer your 27T gearing question.

But, what I've done at our track is I made a bunch of 4 cell packs that I just give away to the new racers. I personally had bunches of older 3300's and better racers at our track give me their retired 6 cell packs and I just make 4 cell packs out of them to hand out.

If you had 3 die hard racers in your program I'd bet you could come up with enough free cells to make hand out 4 cell packs for the newbies
thanks for everyone input...but even with the guys that go to the Nats,Vegas,Snowbirds and all the big races...its not enough to supply our crowd...we have an average of 18-27 TA's every week..sometimes twice a week(Wed&Sun)..with over 45+ ppl involved...there isnt enough if we wanted to.....

Monkey is right about what im saying...if you restrict 21.5 with FDR...why not 17.5...which is a true stock motor?.....

and as far as 27t brushed vs 21.5 brushless....I wish somebody would...lunch meat...lol...

the FDR we came up with seems to work against the current rules...but I guess Im looking for approval....even if I dont need it...I think its important to give respect to the guys who started this class for all of us to enjoy...I dont own a track but Im willing to help spread the FUN around in any form it may be in ...thanks again....
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Old 08-15-2008, 04:20 PM   #2093
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First off, if you are getting 45+ drivers, something is working for you. Kudos.
You have to do what you need to do to keep things going at your track.

I assume everybody runs lipo at your track? So they can't break cells down?

The only problem with a gear limit for lipo and 27t or 17.5 is that you will get monster rip, and on smaller tracks, it could start getting to be a big advantage.
Personally, I like to see the rules kept up, even on a local level. As I said before, if it's working for you, that's great.
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Old 08-15-2008, 05:18 PM   #2094
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Darkside, I'm not trying to be antagonistic, just curious, with all those racers, nobody can come up with 4cells or 21.5's? how did they get the lipo's and 17.5s?

I'll reiterate that at our track, a parking lot usually 100x70, we follow the USVTA rules and with a smooth driver with my T2R 27/4cell car will win against an average driver with a 21.5/ lipo car. The 27t car is has an fdr of 5.53 and track rules dictate a 4.3 fdr for 21.5. So the equality is there.

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Old 08-15-2008, 06:20 PM   #2095
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Originally Posted by losi nut View Post
Darkside, I'm not trying to be antagonistic, just curious, with all those racers, nobody can come up with 4cells or 21.5's? how did they get the lipo's and 17.5s?
Its easy. I dont run at his track but im looking at it from this angle. Im responsible for 4 rc cars pretty much. My XXX-CR (mamba 5700 on lipo) My 1 sons XXX-T MF1 (12t on lipo) My VTA (Currently 27t on old 4 cells) and very very soon to be finished VTA for my other son. I have a 3rd lipo. I can obviously take my lipo out of my off road to run on road. But I cant cause I cant afford to put 2 21.5 novak only brushless set ups in our cars. So I have to now go buy multiple 4 cell battery packs for him to run. Or make him run in a calss he dont really want to run in.

For being a class supposed to be cheap to get into 4 cell battery packs, cause you cant just run on 1 all day and expect any life out of it without allowing it to cool down between charges, is pretty expensive. But many of us already run other classes would be alot cheaper to be able to run the battery we have. Would be alot cheaper on someone getting in fresh also to be able to go to a hobby town and pick up a stick pack and run or spend the money to get twice the life of a 4 cell battery in a cheap lipo like an Orion 3200. Those orion lipos can be had for almost the same price as a decent 4 cell pack and will last twice as long and be able to be used in other applications. Further expanding the RC hobby. Just shooting from the hip here but i thought thats what this class was about. It doesnt have to be about speed....set fdr fixed that. I know my point doesnt mean much but there it is.

example:
First in stock loose battery pack i found on amain...need 2 to make 3 4 cell packs to be able to run all day and expect any life out of the batteries + battery bars + soldering ability (not everyone has hobby shops really out to help people)
http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...ducts_id/25654

1 lipo...said and done can recharge between races
http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...ducts_id/25717

Which is the more cost effective way for the racers? Basic math will fill that blank in.
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Old 08-15-2008, 06:30 PM   #2096
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thanks guys....

we ended up with lipos, cause most of us ran indoor ele dirt...and when the owner said hard case lipos were ok...we all jumped on them...all the 6cell were ebay,sold or given away...that was over a year ago.....

most of the tc guys had 13.5....which turned out to be super stock...so they started running 17.5(true stock).....when we heard about this wonderful class it called for "stock" motors...so we all went and bought 17.5...or 27t

we have a great formula and I love the idea of racing against other racers and not their wallets...mines BIG..LOL...but I rather leave it up to driver..Im all about building this class...I personally know of two tracks that lost this class due to the 4cell rule...or "BREAK-DOWN"...among the racers about rules..some wanted to go "official"..others wanted to "bend"...I would love to contact them and let them know that there is a "MEDIUM"...and it can make for some great and even racing....rules are here to make it legit/legal...

hoping that by the time the Nats roll around we will have some more options

thanks again and to the closer tracks...GA,Memphis,AL,Chattanooga and so on...we will work with you guys if you come here....we have stocked up on pinion gears and have just about every touring car's FDR..that will make it equilvilent to the 4cell setup

dont forget the MUSIC CITY CHAMPIONSHIP is SEPTEMBER 21,2008
on the "BIG" outdoor track..known as PLYCON INTERNATIONAL MOTOR PARK...or P.I.M.P....for short
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Old 08-15-2008, 06:58 PM   #2097
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This is only meant to help out
http://www.promatchracing.com/proddetail.php?prod=4600
2 unmatched $31 6-cell packs is 3 4-cells for $62.

just another option
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Old 08-15-2008, 07:37 PM   #2098
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considerin a good club/regional driver can run faster lap times with a 21.5/lipo in a plastic car 6min into his stint than a nationally touted driver on brushed best time. that was 4.3 . 4.2 is surely a joke in comparison. sheesh over enduro, the brushed has just won its last race @ 'The Track'. september's event will see a 21.5/lipo combination winning. faster and easy 15min stints as opposed to stretching that last 30sec to get 10min outta 4cells

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Old 08-15-2008, 08:17 PM   #2099
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I'm not sure why so many people are now hellbent on changing the rules.

To those that want "more" or different options, have you at least TRIED the current rules as they are written?




For the record, we aren't adding any more motor/battery options to this class. The choices are many, easy to acquire, relatively cheap if you aren't cutting every corner possible with expenses, and easy to maintain.

My car holds one Orion LiPo pack ($85 used) and one Novak 21.5 ($65). They will never be removed from the car for the entire 2008/2009 winter indoor season. That's a whole season of racing on a one-time $150 purchase, and you can do that MUCH cheaper now with one of the new Orion lower mAh LiPos. Not only that, but I'll charge the pack maybe once during the race day, never cut a comm, never discharge or equalize a battery pack, never do any maintenance on the powertrain EVER.



The rules are solid. The rules work very well as they are so far. They aren't growing or exapnding at this point to cater to other battery/motor combinations at this point. It's not a 6-cell class, and it never will be. If it works at your track, that's cool, but that's not USVTA racing, sorry.
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Last edited by squarehead; 08-16-2008 at 05:59 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 08-15-2008, 09:14 PM   #2100
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