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Old 08-14-2008, 06:46 PM   #2071
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just show up and run. TA is a great idea and a great time, so sorely needed. good on all who run it. if some1 run the same power format and show up w/another lid, accept them just the same.

next hurdle to figure out. PAN CARS!!!

R
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Old 08-14-2008, 08:29 PM   #2072
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Originally Posted by ApexSpeed View Post
Hmmm, maybe I did originally read it correctly. The suggestion of a class using new cars isn't a helpful class, IMO, it dilutes the good ones. I agree with Kevin that using existing touring cars with GT and street-type bodies is a good solution to down participation numbers. But it isn't a cure-all.

Creating another new class based on chassis that people don't already have and are on the difficult side to acquire is detrimental to racing. IMO, that's a bad thing for racing and racers.


We're better off buying these cool cars (F1, U2 Trans Am, Minis, etc.) and enjoying them without "racing" them than we are trying to create another sub-class to break down the existing racers with another class of the month.

Save your race days for Trans Am.



Just my two cents.

Im with you on this. I think the cars (ABC Genetic) are neat though. I would like to have one even if its just something to run in the driveway. Or even if its just a shelf queen. Or if I could run it with the VTA cars just for kicks and giggles that would be fun.

What is a U2 Trans Am?

On another note, I think the whole concept of the VTA series could be promoted by going to classic car shows and doing little demo races. Just take some guys and some orange cones and run a short heat around the cones. Find out who is the president of your local car club and see if you can do a demonstration for the club at their next big event.
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Old 08-14-2008, 08:31 PM   #2073
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Originally Posted by nashrcracer View Post
go eat your chitlins batboy
that nasty....not here..never that..yuk

I do have a ?.....Apex...what if a track ran all the USVTA rules and a fdr that made the cars equal to the 4cell power...math is Great...in other words if somebody was running 4cell at there track and came here to race...their car would be no faster than ours....even with the 17.5/27t & 6cell/lipo combo that we use...I know thats not the same but with the fdr that has made the cars ALOT slower it seems it would help with another power combo...I would hope that you guys would look into it....

the combo we use has alot to do with attendance...but we are trying to get that "DIFFERENT DRIVING" feel that makes this class work...if my car only will do 20mph...and yours will only do 20mph....sounds like a winner...Im pushing for the correct formula that will make this a long term class....I have np with anything you guys are doing or will try to increase awareness and racers...

numbers,bodies,weight,rims/tires,times,...and everthing else is cool with me...but asking a group of men to go out and buy a 21.5..is not possible..so Im looking for a solutions that will comply with USVTA....only 2 guys run 6cell outta 30 or so...the FDR setup our Race Director came up with was mathematical correct...Im going to test it completly this Sunday at the PIMP..
and hopefully it will result in same times for me...Im going to run my brushless car with lipo and my brush car with 4 cell and see if my times are pretty much the same...and oh yeah Im pretty consitance...let me know if any of this makes since, I have a tendancy to ramble...lol
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Old 08-14-2008, 11:14 PM   #2074
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If I read the VTA rules correctly, just the 21.5 has a FDR rule.

The 17.5 4cell, and 27t 4 cell probably don't need one - they should be really close (except the 17.5 turns about 1/2 the RPM of a good 27t. So you probably have to gear the HECK out of it in a TC.

The 21.5/LIPO will still turn less RPM than the 27t, but should have a TON more power...so it could be geared to GO FASTER w/o a FDR rule...

(Am I close?)
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Old 08-15-2008, 04:19 AM   #2075
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well their gonna go out and score 21.5/lipo. why? b/c its faster than even brushed. even out as low as 4.4:1 . guys here wont get caught in that scenario again especially for the enduros.

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Old 08-15-2008, 05:16 AM   #2076
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snoopyrc View Post
On another note, I think the whole concept of the VTA series could be promoted by going to classic car shows and doing little demo races. Just take some guys and some orange cones and run a short heat around the cones. Find out who is the president of your local car club and see if you can do a demonstration for the club at their next big event.
That's exactly what Ray Murray is doing over here at SJCCR..Our first "real" USVTA race will be at a CAR SHOW held at the local 50's themed diners

So we'll be doing our thing on display in front of all these people with their REAl 'stangs, cudas cameros and we'll be racing out lexan versions

Ours is going to be a Thursday nite race - starting around 6pm, so we'll even get to see these cars running under the lights

If anyone is in the Philadelphia/NJ area and wants to come out and run, shoot me or Ray Murray a PM and we can hook you up with the info The race is set for 9/11
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Old 08-15-2008, 05:31 AM   #2077
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Originally Posted by ultegrasti View Post
well their gonna go out and score 21.5/lipo. why? b/c its faster than even brushed.
No it's not. The USVTA association power plant rules work. All three allowable power plants are even steven.

To win a TA race using brushed if your driving skills equal everyone else, all you need to do is burn up a stock motor by gearing it right.

At our "big event" last month, we had some top end drivers and the main race results and fastest laptimes for the top four were this:

brushed
brushed
21.5 (4.2 FDR)
17.5

Here's results:

http://tinyurl.com/625ttj

I'm assuming those two guys who won with the stock motors tossed their motors in the trash at the end of race because the magnets were falling off.
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Old 08-15-2008, 05:40 AM   #2078
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Originally Posted by SWTour View Post
If I read the VTA rules correctly, just the 21.5 has a FDR rule.

The 17.5 4cell, and 27t 4 cell probably don't need one - they should be really close (except the 17.5 turns about 1/2 the RPM of a good 27t. So you probably have to gear the HECK out of it in a TC.

The 21.5/LIPO will still turn less RPM than the 27t, but should have a TON more power...so it could be geared to GO FASTER w/o a FDR rule...

(Am I close?)
Yes you are spot on.

At our regular club races, we have 3 or 4 guys who win each week, we have about 6 people who are not as good of racers, call them intermediate racers, and then we have 3 or so newer racers. Our top TA racers mostly run brushed or 17.5. I did a test last week with the goal of getting all the TA racers to finish much closer together. I had the top brushed guys only use a 5.5FDR or higher to even the top speed out amongst all racers. The results were the vast majority of racers had some very close lap times. The good racers still won because of their skills, but they didn't slaughter the pack.

If your TA races have people who are far ahead of the pack week after week it's well within reason to ask them to slow their cars down. In my opinion, in the spirit of this racing class it's well within reason to try and get all vehicles, on a club racing day, the same speed on the straightway.
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Old 08-15-2008, 08:52 AM   #2079
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thanks guys...but the question is....is there room for another batt/mtr combo...?..we use 17.5/27t and lipo/6cell...and a restricted FDR...that allows our cars to be as slow as the 4cell setup or 21.5/lipo...."IF" we follow all the other USVTA rules...

the only problem with the 4cell is that we already have lipos and 17.5...and you dont ask a bunch of guys to change that....the math that our Race Director did to come up with this setup allows for that "DIFFERENT DRIVNG"
feel...that makes this the class the real drivers of r/c...

so my question is can we get a hook up?...or at least a solution that will allow our group to run the batt/mtr...thanks and remember..we have something going right...the FUN FACTOR
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Old 08-15-2008, 09:53 AM   #2080
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Is there a regular TC class as well? They are running 13.5's arent they?

I think you might have to just stick to your platform for local racing and every one should have the understanding that if they go to a sanctioned race, then they will have to adopt a legal powerplant. JMO.

I guess the real question you are asking is. Since you can slow a 21.5 down with a limit on the FDR, then why cant you slow a 17.5/lipo down with an even higher FDR? Is that the objective?
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Old 08-15-2008, 10:38 AM   #2081
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I would venture to guess that probably over half the tracks running trans am classes have adopted some sort of rule for their track different than the official rules. We used to allow 21.5 lipos (before they were legal) and lipo/Stinger. Just because our track is heavy in lipos but we didn't want them to have to buy a 21.5. Now almost everyone is 21.5/lipo... everyone follows the motor rules but we do have a different minimum weight. We are also considering FDR limits, but knowing that any big race that we have a TA class it will follow the USVTA rules.

Having been to the Nats I know that the formula works... but it may not work as well locally. Having spoken with Doug at the Nats I think he is fully aware and ok with the idea that tracks may have to make some tweaks to the system for their track. However I don't think that needs to include adoption to the official rules of USVTA. Its your track .... do what you feel is best.
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Old 08-15-2008, 11:04 AM   #2082
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagokenji View Post
No it's not. The USVTA association power plant rules work. All three allowable power plants are even steven.

To win a TA race using brushed if your driving skills equal everyone else, all you need to do is burn up a stock motor by gearing it right.

At our "big event" last month, we had some top end drivers and the main race results and fastest laptimes for the top four were this:

brushed
brushed
21.5 (4.2 FDR)
17.5

Here's results:

http://tinyurl.com/625ttj

I'm assuming those two guys who won with the stock motors tossed their motors in the trash at the end of race because the magnets were falling off.
21.5 is definately faster than brushed, escpecially on a 4.2 FDR. a 4.4 puts it much closer imo. just ask anyone who was at the sedan challenge a few weeks ago, or the mimi's enduro last week (where ultegrasti was). even "overgearing" a brushed motor as you are suggesting, a 21.5 will still blow you out of the water. it may not be as bad on a big track where the brushed motor can strecth its legs and stay wound up(120ft+ strait at least), but on small tracks 21.5 is far and away much faster.
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Old 08-15-2008, 11:14 AM   #2083
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Originally Posted by geeunit1014 View Post
(120ft+ strait at least), but on small tracks 21.5 is far and away much faster.
Maybe that's it. Our outdoor asphalt parking lot track is about a 110 foot straightaway by about 50 feet, and all three motor options are equal down the straightaway.

See reply #74 for some photos:

http://strictlyrc.net/forum/index.php?topic=412.60

the results I posted earlier today were ran on that layout in the photos.
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Old 08-15-2008, 11:22 AM   #2084
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Being new to electric all together some of this loses me so please excuse my ignorance but is there a reason a lipo or 6 cell battery cant be used with any of the motor options if there is a FDR limit? because basically the extra cells just make it faster correct?
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Old 08-15-2008, 11:35 AM   #2085
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7.4 LiPo can be used. With a 21.5 Novak motor, using 4.2 FDR. It's these:

stock motor/4cell NiMh/NiCad
17.5 Brushless/4 cell Nimh/NiCad
21.5 Novak Brushless/ 7.4 LiPo
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